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roachboy · 10-06-2010, 07:19 AM

uh dk...capitalism is typically defined around actual feature.
but here, i'll make it easy for you to find some of them:

separation of ownership from production
generalization of wage relations (the selling of labor power for a wage)
standardization of production processes/standardization of products.
tendency to exploit economies of scale
deskilling of work

in 1789, the only sectors that were in any sense "capitalist" were textiles and that primarily in england. the **mass production** of cloth is an initial capitalist venture. mass produced fabrics. early capitalism was primarily about selling cheap shit to the poor.

by 1830, when tocqueville traveled around the states gathering the material he later used for "democracy in america" he was well aware that most of the united states was **not** capitalist. capitalism at the time was--and remained until after world war 2--primarily an urban phenomenon. for tocqueville, the coming of capitalism, the spread in influence of the cities and the modes of social organization particular to them (in significant measure because they were remodeled in the image of capitalist relations of production) spelled a mortal threat to the american democratic experiment. and he was, i think, correct.

in the late 18th century, apart from textile production, capitalism existed in the late 18th century almost entirely in the imaginings of writers of texts on political economy. and there it was largely an intellectual collage.

there were lots of features/emergent aspects of social organization that came to be associated with capitalism that were floating about in fragments doing their things---for example the physiocrat-inspired "markety" ideology of turgot that inspired the temporary abolition of the guild system in france in the 1760s and again in 1791 with the le chapelier law---which is, anachronistically, "about" creating a more capitalist-friendly work-force by breaking the power of working people to control the production contexts in which they operate by breaking the organizations that enabled it. but that doesn't mean that france "was" suddenly capitalist one fine day in 1791.

you go on and on about capitalism in some 18th century "pure" form when even a rudimentary understanding of what capitalism as a mode of organization of production would tell you didn't fucking exist.

but maybe that **is** the most functional type of capitalism, the one that doesn't exist materially.

on corporatism: you don't know what the term means. i tell you what it means and you get all snippy. reality is difficult.

on fascism: you don't know what that word means either. fascism is a variant of militarized nationalism. it relies on essentializing images of the community and its Others and uses the figure of the Other (typically its exclusion) to solidify a sense of identity. it relies on a mass media apparatus that provides an illusory simultaneity of experience and synchronizes mass identifications with the person of the Leader. not necessarily the state as such...in fact typically not the state as such...the person of the Decider. fascism operates from a state of emergency.

and don't waste time with cheap red-baiting, dk.

10-06-2010, 07:19 AM	#39 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	uh dk...capitalism is typically defined around actual feature. but here, i'll make it easy for you to find some of them: separation of ownership from production generalization of wage relations (the selling of labor power for a wage) standardization of production processes/standardization of products. tendency to exploit economies of scale deskilling of work in 1789, the only sectors that were in any sense "capitalist" were textiles and that primarily in england. the mass production of cloth is an initial capitalist venture. mass produced fabrics. early capitalism was primarily about selling cheap shit to the poor. by 1830, when tocqueville traveled around the states gathering the material he later used for "democracy in america" he was well aware that most of the united states was not capitalist. capitalism at the time was--and remained until after world war 2--primarily an urban phenomenon. for tocqueville, the coming of capitalism, the spread in influence of the cities and the modes of social organization particular to them (in significant measure because they were remodeled in the image of capitalist relations of production) spelled a mortal threat to the american democratic experiment. and he was, i think, correct. in the late 18th century, apart from textile production, capitalism existed in the late 18th century almost entirely in the imaginings of writers of texts on political economy. and there it was largely an intellectual collage. there were lots of features/emergent aspects of social organization that came to be associated with capitalism that were floating about in fragments doing their things---for example the physiocrat-inspired "markety" ideology of turgot that inspired the temporary abolition of the guild system in france in the 1760s and again in 1791 with the le chapelier law---which is, anachronistically, "about" creating a more capitalist-friendly work-force by breaking the power of working people to control the production contexts in which they operate by breaking the organizations that enabled it. but that doesn't mean that france "was" suddenly capitalist one fine day in 1791. you go on and on about capitalism in some 18th century "pure" form when even a rudimentary understanding of what capitalism as a mode of organization of production would tell you didn't fucking exist. but maybe that is the most functional type of capitalism, the one that doesn't exist materially. on corporatism: you don't know what the term means. i tell you what it means and you get all snippy. reality is difficult. on fascism: you don't know what that word means either. fascism is a variant of militarized nationalism. it relies on essentializing images of the community and its Others and uses the figure of the Other (typically its exclusion) to solidify a sense of identity. it relies on a mass media apparatus that provides an illusory simultaneity of experience and synchronizes mass identifications with the person of the Leader. not necessarily the state as such...in fact typically not the state as such...the person of the Decider. fascism operates from a state of emergency. and don't waste time with cheap red-baiting, dk. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 10-06-2010 at 07:24 AM..