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Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
But tully, he may wish to not do it but those articles and pieces on the healthcare program I've read will increase money coming out of the middle classes pockets. If you don't want to call them taxes and call them fees fine, but they still are an increase of money out of pocket with no choice to decline, just like taxes.
re: the bush tax cuts, because people with any sort of wealth have some sort of financial adviser even if it is just an accountant doing their tax planning, they have already been planning on moving as much wealth as possible this year from direct gifts to building more family trusts. I think that the impact on the rich will be minimal because of this, and if it's not done this year it will be pushed out in future years because let's face it, all politicians fit that rich mold and they have a conflicted interest in protecting their own family money.
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All I was doing was pointing out that Obama has not said he wants to raise taxes on everyone.
On the health care issue some of what you're saying I agree with and some I do not.
Really for years costs and fees have been increasing due to tax cuts. Everything from fees to use national parks to playing sports in school. I remember when playing sports at school was a given. Now it's a pay to play program in many places. This of course has little effect on the wealthy and serious effects on the poor.
You make an interesting point about taxes and how the wealthy deal with them, almost makes me wonder why they spend so much time fighting against them. Because in many ways you're right, they simply find loop holes and shelters and don't pay anyway. Reminds me of a stump speech Bush Jr. used to give where he stated "you can't raise taxes on the wealthy, they're just going to find loop holes and hire accounts and won't end up paying anyway." Not a direct quote, but really close. That amazed me. The argument being that it's impossible to enforce the tax code so why bother? I mean it would be stupid to try to close the loop holes so lets just keep shifting more of the burden to the middle class.
At some point all the money, massive amounts of money spent on the Bush Jr. tax cuts and the wars are going to have to be paid back. Cutting education, health care, Social Security or increasing taxes on the poor and middle class seem like really good ways to ensure the wealthy keep getting more wealthy and the middle class keeps sinking lower.