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Baraka_Guru · 09-03-2010, 05:04 PM

I've always considered a religion to be a bit more than that. I also see it as a moral system and a way of life. People use religion as a guide to understanding how to live too, right?

EDIT (addition after some thought):

Pearl Trade, for starters, I'd like to address one thing about your position that may be random or insignificant to the topic, but it's something I'm interested in. I see that you capitalize the word atheism. As a professional book editor, I have an eye for these things. Technically speaking, from an editor's standpoint (and using the Oxford Dictionary as a guide), atheism shouldn't be capitalized because it isn't a proper noun. To me this is an important distinction.

The reason why the word isn't capitalized is because it is a generic noun, which means it has many connotations. The same goes for theism, monotheism, and polytheism. We do not consider any of these designations as "religions."

Atheism is not a religion in my view because it has no distinguishing attributes other than it meaning a lack of a belief in deities. The opposite of that is having a belief in a deity or deities, and this is where we go back to theism. Theism itself is not a religion. Christianity is, as is Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism. The difference being that these latter designations signify distinct and identifiable systems of belief. That is the key. Without distinguishing a system of belief, there is no religion.

This is not to say, however, that atheists have no belief or moral system or a code of conduct for their lives. All it means is that the designation of atheist doesn't imply any particular system. Joseph Stalin was an atheist, but I'll be damned (pardon the pun) if we share many values and beliefs.

It might help to think about what moral systems or codes of conduct that atheists might ascribe to. I mentioned in another thread that I am more or less a humanist. If you consider humanism a religion, then so be it. Other atheists might consider veganism, pacifism, or hedonism (or a combination thereof) as ideals that they most identify with to inform how they live their lives. Call those religions too, if you will. What I don't quite understand is your purpose for labelling atheism in any form as a religion. What is the use? Does it help you categorize atheism in terms of systems of belief among all humans?

The other aspect of this, too, is that many are considered "irreligious" in that they do not identify with any particular religion. They might believe in God, but they aren't necessarily Christian or anything else. They might call themselves "spiritual" or consider themselves "believers" for the lack of a more specific term. They might, more or less, ascribe to Judeo-Christian values in a general sense. They probably don't go to church or any other formal religious service. Do these people have a religion? How do you categorize them?

I guess the ultimate question I have is: Must all humans have a religion? What does this identifier do? Is it a categorical thing, or does your perspective inform you that all humans have a belief in something because it's God's will (i.e. God exists despite what atheists believe)?

09-03-2010, 05:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I've always considered a religion to be a bit more than that. I also see it as a moral system and a way of life. People use religion as a guide to understanding how to live too, right? EDIT (addition after some thought): Pearl Trade, for starters, I'd like to address one thing about your position that may be random or insignificant to the topic, but it's something I'm interested in. I see that you capitalize the word atheism. As a professional book editor, I have an eye for these things. Technically speaking, from an editor's standpoint (and using the Oxford Dictionary as a guide), atheism shouldn't be capitalized because it isn't a proper noun. To me this is an important distinction. The reason why the word isn't capitalized is because it is a generic noun, which means it has many connotations. The same goes for theism, monotheism, and polytheism. We do not consider any of these designations as "religions." Atheism is not a religion in my view because it has no distinguishing attributes other than it meaning a lack of a belief in deities. The opposite of that is having a belief in a deity or deities, and this is where we go back to theism. Theism itself is not a religion. Christianity is, as is Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism. The difference being that these latter designations signify distinct and identifiable systems of belief. That is the key. Without distinguishing a system of belief, there is no religion. This is not to say, however, that atheists have no belief or moral system or a code of conduct for their lives. All it means is that the designation of atheist doesn't imply any particular system. Joseph Stalin was an atheist, but I'll be damned (pardon the pun) if we share many values and beliefs. It might help to think about what moral systems or codes of conduct that atheists might ascribe to. I mentioned in another thread that I am more or less a humanist. If you consider humanism a religion, then so be it. Other atheists might consider veganism, pacifism, or hedonism (or a combination thereof) as ideals that they most identify with to inform how they live their lives. Call those religions too, if you will. What I don't quite understand is your purpose for labelling atheism in any form as a religion. What is the use? Does it help you categorize atheism in terms of systems of belief among all humans? The other aspect of this, too, is that many are considered "irreligious" in that they do not identify with any particular religion. They might believe in God, but they aren't necessarily Christian or anything else. They might call themselves "spiritual" or consider themselves "believers" for the lack of a more specific term. They might, more or less, ascribe to Judeo-Christian values in a general sense. They probably don't go to church or any other formal religious service. Do these people have a religion? How do you categorize them? I guess the ultimate question I have is: Must all humans have a religion? What does this identifier do? Is it a categorical thing, or does your perspective inform you that all humans have a belief in something because it's God's will (i.e. God exists despite what atheists believe)? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 09-03-2010 at 05:47 PM..