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Originally Posted by Willravel
I responded to all of your points. If you'd like me to reiterate, ask away.
I'm glad no one you know in the Tea Party is a bigot, but that's not really what I'm talking about. It's not as simple as bigotry. Sure, some Tea Partiers are obviously bigoted, but the main point I was making is that the movement's commonality is hatred of something. It's not just racial hatred, though. As I said above, for some of them it's hatred of the poor, for some of them it's hatred of abortion, for some of them it's hatred of the president (and not everyone that hates President Obama feels that way because of his race).
How do your friends feel about President Obama? Do they make Marie Antoinette remarks about him and his family, too?
For the hundredth time in this thread, please show me all these people that are telling the racists or haters to leave. Please show me evidence. I'm begging you, prove me wrong.
Tu quoque fallacy, eh?
Why is it that you always center on racial bigotry? I'm not just talking about that, as it's only one part of the Tea Party's problem. Can you speak to the hatred of the poor? Or hatred of a woman's right to choose? Or the xenophobia?
This reads like bullshit. I'm sorry to say it, but it really does. Every Tea Partier, when confronted, pretends their concerns are legitimate (btw, all of the concerns you listed are incorrect. Illegal immigration isn't bankrupting states, crime is low, and the Tea Party works on behalf of special interest groups whether they know it or not, as they're organized and funded by corporate power). I know what the Tea Party likes to think of itself as, but that isn't an accurate reflection of what it really is. As has been pointed out countless times before, there were no Tea Party movements during the Bush administration when Federal spending was out of control, corporate power in Washington was on the steep rise, and the Constitution was being pissed on. The silence on the right was deafening. Not one Tea Party or even vaguely conservative or Republican protest took place. That fact alone removes any and all legitimacy from the movement's supposed goals. In other words, if the Tea Partiers really cared about these things, they'd care about them regardless of who was president. Because that's not the case, the whole movement is revealed as dishonest.
What the fuck are you talking about? The Obama's aren't rich people. Barack Obama just finished paying off his college loans. Community organizers don't make a lot of money, you know. State senators do alright, and Senators do quite well, but that only accounts for the last few years. The idea that the Obamas are aristocrats is absurd and based in fantasy.
I welcome you to rebuke the photographic evidence.
What is it with you and race? It's not JUST racial hatred. It's hatred in general that unites the Tea Party. Some Tea Partiers are racist, some aren't. Jesus, how much more clear do I have to make this?
There's literally no situation in which it's okay for a white person to use the term "Uncle Tom".
This shit again? "Hi, I'm Pan and I'm not a racist. No seriously, I'm not a racist... are you calling me a racist?! HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE I'M A RACIST! I SHOULD RUIN YOUR THREAD!!" No one has called you racist ever on TFP. Cut that shit out.
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I'm going to make this real simple... because I'm beyond pissed.
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Pathetic is defending bigots. Every single Tea party I've personally been to as well as countless images from all of the Tea Parties tell a tale not even you can spin. They're people united by fear and hatred. All the lies and false comparisons in the world can't change that. Deal with it.
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Did you or did you not direct the highlighted part at me? Yes or no, don't give any fucking but... you are misreading.... fuck the excuses Will... did you or did you not direct the highlighted part at me for defending the Tea Party and as a response to my first post?
But then you say it's not just racial.... but you point out how blacks are very rare... you don't say, blacks, gays, etc... YOU say blacks.
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I don't need to categorize anyone as anything, they do it themselves. Remember Mark Williams, one of the few actual leaders in the Tea Party movement? If you don't, google him. It not that a few bad apples in the Tea Party are racist, it's that a lot of them show up to every single rally and no one at the rallies EVER asks them to leave or disagrees with them.
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Who's playing the race card? Not, homophobic, not xenophobic, not anti non Christian, not sexists..... the ONLY word YOU use is RACIST.
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What is it with you and race? It's not JUST racial hatred. It's hatred in general that unites the Tea Party. Some Tea Partiers are racist, some aren't. Jesus, how much more clear do I have to make this?
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But did YOU or did YOU not make a point of saying this earlier, I even highlighted it for you?
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In Philadelphia a week or so ago, there was a 'UniTea' event, a Tea party affiliated event that was supposed to demonstrate the racial diversity of the Tea Party. Guess how many people showed up? Less than 200, including about a dozen media. And almost all of them were white.
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So, who brought race into it? Who's saying that, "yeah there was a Tea Party and there were very few blacks there"..... That is EXACTLY what you are saying. Don't BS you're way out...
So when I make a rebuttal to THAT SPECIFIC statement, YOU made, I get this
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What is it with you and race? It's not JUST racial hatred. It's hatred in general that unites the Tea Party. Some Tea Partiers are racist, some aren't. Jesus, how much more clear do I have to make this?
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But Will, who brought the race card into it? YOU did. I make a rebuttal to a specific statement YOU MADE... but I'm the one bringing race into it... BULLSHIT. Did you say, "mostly there were white, non gay, no hispanic, males, who come from a lower middle class and down?"
NO, you made a point out of saying only "almost all were white." So, I ask again WHO IS PLAYING THE RACE CARD?
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How do your friends feel about President Obama? Do they make Marie Antoinette remarks about him and his family, too?
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And no one here called W worse? He was fucking compared to Hitler, remember Will? You, Host, a group of us here, myself even all compared and made Hitler references to W.
But that is ok. Comparing Michelle Obama to Marie Antoinette is wrong.
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What the fuck are you talking about? The Obama's aren't rich people. Barack Obama just finished paying off his college loans. Community organizers don't make a lot of money, you know. State senators do alright, and Senators do quite well, but that only accounts for the last few years. The idea that the Obamas are aristocrats is absurd and based in fantasy.
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Let's see unemployment rates are how high? And Barack is saying that the economy is in a deeper hole than expected and we have to work harder?
Follow me there? Is that true or not? Do I need to pull a Host and research and put the proof up?
Our government is losing it's tax base and going further and further into debt? True or not?
People are losing their homes, their cars, the banks who have been bailed out are raising credit card rates and fees causing more people financial pain? True or not?
We have reports that say we are losing the middle class and small businesses are barely surviving? true or not?
Now a very basic look at 1790's France, the government was bankrupt, the middle class took the brunt and were taxed to to the brink of bankruptcy, reforms to "help" the people were corrupt and failed miserably. BUT, the King and the court, while the peasants and middle class were losing everything, basically made sure they had the best of everything at the cost of the worker. True or not?
SO as our citizenry is losing everything we have built for 200+ years, and Michelle Obama takes a trip to one of the most exclusive and expensive resorts in Europe, it's not like Marie Antoinette telling us "let them eat cake... I'll do as I wish on their money." ....
And which is it, are the taxpayers paying for this or the Obama's? You say the Obama's, yet, in your own words
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"The Obama's aren't rich people."
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So are taxpayers? Are lobbyists? who is paying? Ultimately the fact is, it is us the people paying for it with our tax dollars.
To make excuses for that is fucking ignorant. There is no excuse. If and when Obama gets this country back to where people can breathe financially, then maybe a trip like that could be understandable... but when they are talking double dip recession and Obama is telling us to tighten our belts while he and his family do the opposite on OUR tax dollars??? Come on, now Will not even you can be so fucking loyal to the King that you can't make the comparisons.
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This shit again? "Hi, I'm Pan and I'm not a racist. No seriously, I'm not a racist... are you calling me a racist?! HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE I'M A RACIST! I SHOULD RUIN YOUR THREAD!!" No one has called you racist ever on TFP. Cut that shit out.
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Standard game when you and your friends here want to change focus. WHERE DID I EVEN COME CLOSE TO SAYING THAT?????????? But when I start making points you can't defend you (etal) bring it up and try to change focus.
So I will reply ONE time to this and we shall not see YOU or me use it again...OK? OK.
And yes, when you rant about how full of hate the Tea Partiers (which like I have said I strongly believe in what they stand for, I just dislike the talking heads trying to control it) are and insinuate or even tell me, (I'll assume it was insinuation) that I defend bigots, I need to defend myself. You are by telling me that because I believe in the movement and that I have gone to a few am full of hatred, that because I defend them, I am a defender of bigots... sooooo what should I do? Allow you to keep making insinuations and when I make a rebuttal, keep getting that pounded down my throat and not be able to say, "Fuck, you I"m not and I get tired of the bullshit where you say I do?"
One thing about the TFP politics and why so many have left is it is ok to insinuate or flat out call people bigots, defender of bigots, believer in a hateful movement, and so on... but when they defend themselves... it's turned and "YOU are not being attacked." BULLSHIT.