To "woman up" would mean to accept the responsibility of her actions and follow through with them regardless of the choice, abort, adopt out, or rear and mother.... that would be to "woman up". And within that "womaning up" the recognizing that it seems, to many men, that abortion is just the end of a problem whereas the process of abortion alone has its own issues for not only a mental adjustment of reality but a physical one. Abortion is like having a root canal between your legs with more stigma than lack of good dental hygiene, grow up fellas, the abortion of a fetus is more than just taking a day after pill at this point. I could care less about the moral side of this issue; God has nothing to do with choice, imo, so my bringing in of God was just a simple well wishing to soma, et al.
It’s a real shame when someone takes what one says and wraps it with a religious connotation just because I believe in a God (just because I believe in God does not make me anti-abortion nor does it make me judgmental, nor am I pressuring to not have an abortion, gggeeessshhh people), and most of what I was saying about abortion to begin with was to katyg and understanding how abortion can effect somebody, funny, it didn't bother me that much until about 10 years later, when I grew up and realized the haste of my decision (and the pressure put upon me to have it). Still doesn't change that I did what I thought was the best at the time I did it, it just seems to me as a more mature woman now, I realize that most people raise to the challenges they are presented, it would have just been another challenge I would have risen to. And if she keeps it, so will they, they will rise to the challenges presented by their decisions. Soma seems to be a very intelligent person, I have a feeling he will make the right choice and support this girl regardless of her choice, one that I do not pressure or have a vested opinion in either direction, I was simply tired of hearing the abort, abort, abort, wash your hands of it and np shit being throw out there.......
I am floored at how many of you jump on to that abort wagon and seem to blame the girl for entrapment of some sort if she doesn't do what some of you fellas view as the easy way out, but it is really only easy for you boys, interesting. Man Up means be an adult about it, grow up and accept the reality of your situation as more than just her problem to fix and deal with it, accept your part in the participation of the results of your actions.
God has nothing to do with my perspectives of the actions of morality, human actions are simply what they are, responses to stimulus, how one responds to stimulus defines ones character, not ones religions beliefs. I do not believe it is morally wrong to have an abortion, I do not think it reduces ones character, I do not believe abortion is bad, what I believe it that the reality of abortion is more that just a trip to the doctor to remove a 50/50 tumor because a tumor has no potential for anything other than being parasitic whereas a fetus has potential. I am not selling life, it is what it is. Manning Up is simply growing up just as Womaning Up is growing up too; it’s facing your responsibilities head on and accepting the repercussions of their outcomes. Get over the God shit, when I say God bless you I mean, may your life find meaning and fulfillment in whatever endeavors you seek and may you find peace in your decisions that they may bring you joy in life and a sense of completion in your living however the fuck you find it, in that fucking sentiment, God Bless you all.
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Originally Posted by SecretMethod70
Pretty sure it's called sarcasm 
I find it interesting that people are so willing to talk about "manning up" and accepting the responsibility of actions, yet no one apparently expects the mother to do the same thing. The responsible thing for the mother to do in this situation would be to either abort or put the child up for adoption. It is irresponsible for the mother to carry this child to term with the intention of keeping it, yet no one wants to talk about how she isn't being responsible here. Soma's not asking how to get away with being a deadbeat dad, and no one here is advising him to be one. Rather, the discussion has been centered on how to help the mother to see what the more responsible options are, how to make sure he's not stuck caring for someone else's kid, and, finally, how to minimize the negative impact this unplanned pregnancy will have on the rest of his life.
As for the specific topic of abortion - and this is really approaching deserving a different thread - while there is no doubt that some mothers do suffer regret after abortion, the evidence points to this emotional impact being seriously overstated by those who are opposed to abortion. This is not to discount the experience of someone like katyg or yourself. Some women most certainly regret the decision. It is simply a mistake to assume that the difficult decision to abort will also lead to years of regret and anguish afterward. But again, no one is saying soma should bully her into getting an abortion, some people (including me) are simply saying that it is an option that should be seriously discussed. The fact that you regret your own has no bearing on what decision is right for soma and his girlfriend.
Awhile back, a certain TFP user wrote about her experience having had an abortion as a teenager, and you know what? She did not talk about regret. She did not talk about how that "chapter remains within [her] book and always feels empty." She was perfectly fine with the decision and recognizes it was the best choice to make. So please don't promote the sexist idea that men just don't understand and woe is woman who will always and forever regret having not given a chance to the clump of cells growing in their womb. The "what if" argument is tired and faulty, as powerclown demonstrates (perhaps unintentionally) in post #6. Women are just as capable as men to find peace with the decision to abort, and men are just as capable as women to regret that decision. In my own relationship, we've done everything necessary to avoid pregnancy over the past 10 years, but if we were to find out tomorrow that she's pregnant we would be making a trip to Planned Parenthood the next day. That's the real mistake here with soma's situation, because both my girlfriend and I have discussed this and there has never been any question that we would both choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Soma didn't establish that understanding, and so he's paying the consequence. But again, that's in the past. It doesn't do him one bit of help to tell him how he should have done this or shouldn't have done that. It's kind of hard not to realize these things when you're faced with an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy.
Don't go moralizing and generalizing about your own decisions as if they apply equally to others. Especially don't go telling someone that their feelings aren't valid or that they shouldn't express their own needs and desires because they might cause someone else to be unhappy. Why is it OK for the mother to express the desire to keep the child with no regard for soma's happiness, but not OK for soma to express his desire to abort the child or put it up for adoption simply because the mother might be unhappy with those choices? It's not. He can't force the mother to abort or put the child up for adoption, so if she does do one of those things after discussing it with soma, it is her own responsibility to own those decisions. Don't go saddling soma with guilt for future possibilities that don't yet exist. He is responsible for his own choices, not hers, and if his choice would be to get rid of the baby in some way then he should not be forced to keep silent about what he wants for fear that she may not be happy with her own decision down the road.
(Sorry, soma, for talking about you as if you're not here.) |
For starters what part of this
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need to allow her to take the responsibility of the financial burden (depending on where you live, unmarried mothers, especially students, receive reduced to free care for childbirth and early child development) and the ability to receive food stamps, WIC, etc… this is the price she pays for not protecting herself, that and the whole Mother thing, secondary you will need to support the child, period, unless it is not yours but you have already stated that you believe it is. Still she will get more help as a single mother right now and I think this should be part of her commitment to the baby and in a sense her willingness to support you finishing college and getting the job, then when the baby is a bit older she can finish her education, she will need to quit school and get a job,
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is a lack of her accepting responsibility, yeah, she got knocked up so now she will need to take the responsibility of motherhood, find a job, ask for assistance to admit she fucked up in her ability to prepare for motherhood before she allowed it to happen, put off her education and in a sense her ability to provide for herself without depending on someone else, wherein she will be beholden to handouts for her security, accept that society will look at her as a burden, an unwed mother, she will own them alright, and where will he be in all this, her accepting her responsibility? Well if she had aborted like he wanted or put the baby up for adoption, would she be where he is? (As a side, when a woman goes to a doctor she is asked if she has had any abortions, pregnancies that ended early, etc, as the effects of pregnancies do weight on the female body, regardless of fruition {scar tissue, etc}…. do they ask the same of men? like, how many women have you impregnated who aborted or who carried to term? It makes a difference to a woman’s body, it makes a difference to a woman’s mind, it just does! We are asked these questions, it matters to us, it matters to our physical definitions of our bodies’ evolution, it matters.)
So, because HE does not want the responsibility of his intercourse SHE should either, abort, give it up, or take full responsibility for the decision to keep their offspring and he should have no responsibility because he doesn’t WANT to deal with the repercussions of his actions to begin with…..
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It is irresponsible for the mother to carry this child to term with the intention of keeping it, yet no one wants to talk about how she isn't being responsible here.
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What? How is it irresponsible for her to want to keep her child just because HE does not want the responsibility of it…. WTF? She must abort or adopt out because HE does not want the responsibility, do you hear what you are saying? It’s all her fault he will be a father and it is up to her to fix this for HIM, at her expense of everything, you know, had she been wearing a burka maybe she would not have tempted him to fuck her to begin with and he would not have to worry about the consequences of HIS actions, all her fault, all her decisions, all her repercussions to protect his way of life…. are you getting this? She should just abort or give it away so he does not need to suffer the injustice of unprepared for fatherhood as he really didn’t mean to become one right now and not with her, she was just for fucks sake, even his parents would have disapproved, he was never really serious, but was she? Not that that mattered, did it?
I really wish men could be impregnated and understand what it means not only to themselves (as the conceiver) but to society as being the incubator of life, and to themselves later as the ender of life, because it just didn’t seem like the right time to let this conglomeration of cells to grow. You abort a mission before it comes to fruition, once these cells develop you destroy a fetus, abortion is what you do before you bust the nut. Interesting site you linked to, I have never seen it before nor does the putting a God perspective to abortion mean squat to me, God has nothing to do with the abortion of a fetus or life, the perspectives of life (the already living body) is what makes the difference, if abortion to you is a form of birth control, well then, their you go, what is the difference between life and death to begin with…. I would hate for humanity to get to the point where we view abortion as just an extension of bc, shame, get over the whole God stuff, this isn’t about God, this is about the reality of human experience and human existence, the biology of man and the minds ability to link life to experiences therewith, you cannot remove life from pregnancy in that you decide that if it is not the appropriate time then it was never really viable anyways, lets not confuse choice with convenience.
What part of this does not imply that she should take responsibility for the decision to keep the baby, if that is the decision? In the end, he can simply walk away and throw her a couple of bucks to cover the costs of the LIFE HE CREATED TOO (in reality he can just walk away and deny, move to another state, ignore, move to another country, nothing outside of a court ordered blood test can prove his paternity and then if he really does not want to support his child he can just not work and eventually be sent to jail, on the other hand, she will always be the responsible party of this life, regardless of whether she allows it to come to fruition or not and most of the time in situation where the male just does not want to provide, the female makes due anyway). You know what SecretMethod70 I did not talk about regret for many, many years after either, it wasn’t until I got much older and realized that life may not have been as easy but it still would have been an experience to have known, I do not regret having an abortion, what I regret is not experiencing that life when I was younger, this is not about morals, this is about the reality of what an abortion places on a woman, research what happens to a woman during an abortion, better yet, go to a clinic and watch the women who have to cross a protest line with women chanting “please don’t kill your baby, please, give me your baby”….. this isn’t about morality, this IS the reality of living, and she should not have to live this reality alone as he is just as much a party to this as she is, but she will suffer the responsibility of it far more than he ever will, unless of course she dies during any procedures and all is lost or HE rears the child by himself, then he can accept full responsibility for his actions and man up to life as an adult male, or a man.
Pardon my rant......., and the five questions posted by The_Jazz seem like the five pillars to reality to me for Soma right now..... Good luck Soma, my thoughts are with you, be patient.