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Psycho
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Originally Posted by roachboy
i think israel made a serious political error. as one of the ministers in netanyahu's cabinet argued last week (it's in an article from haaretz above) it would've made a whole lot more sense to let the flotilla land and get the press because it woulda gone away in a few days.
and this is the 9th such flotilla, btw. did you hear much about the other 8?
i've already answered all these questions above....
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O.k. so now we are on something to peruse, why it is, do you think, that Israel allowed 8 flotillas to pass and yet at the ninth one they interced before the ships hit waters near the palestine/gaza arena of play. Why do you think they would take such risks to approach a ship that had been o.k.ed by Turkey and still they board her, why.....? Why do you think other ships connected with the flotilla outside the port, ships meeting in open water after they had been searched for contraband, why do you all think that Israel did not have a reason to do what they did? Why do you think the ship that returned to a port happened to drop all its passengers onto the Mavi Marmara, more bodies to fight in this preplanned confrontation, maybe?
I can’t imagine why Israel might want to insure the flotillas are not carrying anything that can be lobed at them, like what they have experienced for the last 10 years of daily terror from a regime that is known for its cruelty.
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1.The main objective of this study is to analyze the terrorist organizations’ use of rocket and mortar shell fire between 2000 and 2007, the years of the terrorist campaign initiated by the Palestinians (called the Al-Aqsa intifada). The study examines the extent of the fire, the policies employed by the various organizations, the factors influencing those policies, trends of escalation or lulls in the attacks, the impact on the residents of the western Negev settlements.
2. Rocket fire began in 2001 and during the confrontation gradually became one of primary threats coming from the Palestinian terrorist organizations. As of the end of November 2007, there has been a total of 2,383 identified rocket hits in and around the western Negev settlements, with the southern city of Sderot as a priority and drawing 45% of the rockets which landed on inhabited areas.
3. For the Palestinian terrorist organizations, rockets and mortars serve as an asymmetric response to Israel’s military superiority. They are simple, available and cheap. That response, from their point of view, even though there are problems and disadvantages, allows them to disrupt the life and rend the social fabric of the civilian population living with range, to bypass the security fence Israel constructed in the Gaza Strip and to create a kind of balance of terror to hamper the Israeli security forces’ counterterrorist activities. That strategic conception was primarily inspired by Hezbollah’s Lebanese model, which was regarded as successful before the Israeli withdrawal from the security zone and during the second Lebanon war. Syria and Iran support the terrorist The official Hamas announcement of the firing of a Qassam rocket at Sderot was made on November 1, 2001. It had been fired a few days previously. organizations’ efforts to copy the Lebanese model in the Palestinian Authority with know-how, training and the purchase of standard rockets.
4. Since 2001 rocket fire has been directly responsible for the deaths of ten Israeli civilians, nine of them Sderot residents. In addition, 433 individuals have been wounded, the overwhelming majority of them civilians, and during the past year and a half more than 1,600 instances of stress were reported. Mortar fire has been responsible for the deaths of ten individuals, eight civilians and two IDF soldiers. Of the 150 wounded, 80 were civilians and 70 soldiers.
5. The damage to the civilian populace is not only measured statistically in terms of the number killed and wounded or the extent of property damage. The continued attacks have an accumulated psychological impact on the population and destroy the sense of security previously had by more than 190,000 people, who now live under the potential threat of daily rocket and mortar shell attacks. They also disrupt the routine of daily life in all the western Negev settlements, cause residents to move away (especially from Sderot), and expose the political echelons and the IDF to harsh criticism. The continuing fire hampers efforts to advance a peace
treaty between Israel and the Palestinians by creating a situation of constant rocket fire and constant Israelis countermeasures.
6. In addition, between 2001 and November 2007, more than 2,500 mortar shells were fired. Their short range made them effective before the disengagement, especially when they were aimed at the IDF forces which operated in the Gaza Strip and at the Israeli settlements there. In the absence of Israeli targets after the disengagement there was a sharp decrease in the number of rockets fired. However, since April 2007 the terrorist organizations have begun to make greater use of mortar shells, especially Hamas, which does not directly participate in rocket fire. In recent months As of October 2007. the fire has been aimed at IDF forces operating in the Gaza Strip and along the security fence, at the crossings (especially Kerem Shalom) and at the Israeli settlements close to the security fence, such as Netiv Ha’asara, Kibbutz Kerem Shalom and Kibbutz Nahal Oz.
7. This study concentrated all the data and examined the Palestinian terrorist organization policy of rocket and mortar fire, beginning when confrontation started in 2000 and going through October 2007. An examination of the following graph shows the number of attacks gradually grew (2001- 2004) until the disengagement (2005), when there was a temporary drop. However, in the two following years (2006-2007) there was a sharp increase and rockets became the main weapons in the hands of the Palestinian terrorist organizations.
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2001 to 2007 is 6 to 7 years of rocket and mortar fire, not to mention suicide bombers, anyway 2,383 confirmed rocket hits and 2,500 mortar rounds in (365 x 7) 2,555 days, so we are looking at about 1 rocket and 1 mortar every single day for 7+ years from the gaza strip region have been lobbed over into the homes and businesses of the Israelis people, when does this stop? What do you suggest they do to stop the bombers and the rockets and the mortars, what should they do, how should they protect their own people?
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Originally Posted by silent_jay
You called them 'hate filled animals', not animals.
You always seem to have some excuse or something when you get called on things you type, you may not have said it directly, but you sure did imply it, and now you start the usual back peddle.
Like you hadn't already made that connection.
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Yes jay, I called them hate filled animals, (my initial statement was what it is, I never changed it, I even quoted it, no edits, jay and no back peddling either) watch the video, the soldiers came down the lines and were immediately attacked, this was not the first boarding, they boarded five other ships in the flotilla and did not meet this kind of resistance, these "activists” knew the drill, IDF will search, will seize, will take you to a port, unload and deliver non contraband aid over roadways and send the “activists” home, or prison for resistance or contraband. But these “activists” had knives and metal poles and beat them, threw them off the deck, stabbed them, so they defended themselves.
Listen, we may never know until the release of information what was the true justification behind this move to board the flotilla in international waters, but we have seen, as rb points out, 8 or so flotillas pass without this same form of issue, why do you think that NOW this occurs, what do you think lead Israel to respond to the flotilla not turning around, and why didn't they....? There is more to this than what we a privy to, more to the underlying issue than can be shared until links are connected and issues resolved to a varying degree of comprehension.
I know Israel is powerful, I know Israel can be seen as aggressive, but they have reason to protect themselves, this cannot be denied or forgotten, as we all wish to stop the terrorist attacks, we still have to recognized the mentality of the terrorist and the drive they feel to murder Jews and infidels, you cannot be blinded to the inherent discord within the foundations of the terrorists’ minds, these terrorist will use whatever means to bring about their souls' purpose and that is the death of Israel, the death of Jews, the death of infidels, it is their way, they live and breath it.
I do not want to see any people persecuted or harmed especially killed, but tolerance of terrorism is not permitted, there is no justification for blowing oneself up in a public place surrounded by innocents, there is no justification for using your own country men, women and children as shields and weapons, the reality is that the hamas is linked to al qaeda is linked to many brands of terror encampments within and without the arab communities, the Muslim communities, it is by the nature of their beliefs in the Koran, as shaped by fundamental extremist, that these "terror" attacks persist and will continue to do so until the mentality of a broken people, who are reared in death and maiming, ends. Until that time, there can be no trust; there can be no complacency, for it is the acknowledged intent of the hamas to destroy Israel and the Jews, period.
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IDF forces met with pre-planned violence when attempting to board flotilla, 31 May 2010
The Israel Navy warned the flotilla that the Gaza region is closed to maritime traffic. During a search aboard the Mavi Marmara, IDF forces uncovered a cache of weapons used to violently attack the soldiers. Flotilla leaders stated (Sunday, May 30) that violence was premeditated
(Communicated by the IDF Spokesperson)
Early Monday morning (31 May), IDF naval forces intercepted six ships attempting to break the naval blockade of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israel Navy that were issued prior to the action. The Israel Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid material which would then be transferred over land after undergoing security inspections.
During the boarding of the Mavi Marmara, the demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. Additionally two of the weapons used were grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose. In fact, flotilla leaders stated (Sunday, May 30) that violence was premeditated.
- IDF forces: "We came to speak, they came to fight."
- Israeli Navy soldier describes the violent mob aboard Mavi Marmara
Pistols found on flotilla activists: According to reports from sea, on board the flotilla that was seeking to break the maritime closure on the Gaza Strip, IDF forces apprehended two violent activists holding pistols. The violent activists took these pistols from IDF forces and apparently opened fire on the soldiers as evident by the empty pistol magazines.
As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces first employed riot dispersal means, followed by live fire. Reports from IDF forces on the scene are that it seems as if part of the participants on board the ships were planning to lynch the forces.
Update on injuries and casualties on board the Mavi Mamara:
A total of seven soldiers were wounded - four soldiers were moderately wounded, of which two were initially in critical condition, as well as an additional three soldiers who were lightly wounded. Among the violent activists, there were nine casualties as a result of the soldiers defending themselves.
June 1: One soldier told Prime Minister Netanyahu that he had taken a bullet in the stomach and pointed out the entry and exit wounds.
A captain told Prime Minister Netanyahu that people on the ship seized the rope and tried to prevent soldiers from coming down, and that only the soldiers' resourcefulness led to its release. "I came down second and as I did, they shot at me. Seven or eight fighters jumped on me and began to beat me with a bar. I was hit on the head and neck. Another man attacked me with a knife. I lost consciousness for 45 minutes and when I came to it was already light. My friends came and saved me."
Another soldier said that as soon as he descended, he was set upon and thrown to a lower deck. He received a severe skull fracture as a result.
Another naval soldier, who participated in the interception of the Mavi Marmara ship and sustained a broken arm while under attack by the ship’s passengers, described how the soldiers were shot at from the entrance to the ship’s corridor.
"We came with the intention of stopping the ship and taking it to Ashdod, and we did not come with the weapons we usually have, we came for something entirely different."
In the coming hours, the ships will be directed to the Ashdod port, while IDF naval forces will perform security checks in order to identify the people on board the ships and their equipment. The IDF Spokesman conveys that this event is currently unfolding and further details will be provided as soon as possible.
The IDF naval operation was carried out under orders from the political leadership to halt the flotilla from reaching the Gaza Strip and breaching the naval blockade.
The interception of the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod sea port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.
IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack and to harm them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.
Weapons recovered on the Mavi Marmara during a search aboard the maritime vessel Mavi Marmara, IDF forces uncovered a cache of weapons including many knives, slingshots, rocks, smoke bombs, metal rods, improvised sharp metal objects, sticks and clubs, 5KG hammers, firebombs and gas masks in case IDF forces fired riot dispersal means at the activists as they violently attacked the soldiers. These weapons were used against Israeli Navy personnel as they attempted to board the ship.
Israel Navy warns flotilla: Gaza closed to maritime traffic
Text:
Israel Navy: "Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade. The Gaza area coastal region and Gaza harbor are closed to all maritime traffic. The Israeli government supports delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and invites you to enter the Ashdod port. Delivery of supplies in accordance with the authorities' regulations will be through the formal land crossings and under your observation, after which you can return to your home ports on the vessels on which you have arrived."
Response: "Negative, negative."
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You can see pictures of confiscated weapons and videos, impressive videos, at this site below:
IDF forces met with pre-planned violence when attempting to board flotilla 31-May-2010
This is not a game of who did what first or last or whenever, this is the reality of a mentality within the terrorist sect that will not be resolved until the moderate Muslims stand up to the extremist and the fundamental religious zealots and remove from the Arab people the glorification and martyrdom of hate and persecution and destruction they are feed from infancy in spoonfuls of xenophobic teachings found within their own religion.
This is a symptom of a far greater disease and one that will spread if you turn your back on it and will kill you from behind because it can and is taught to, is taught to children to kill and maim and destroy, it is the very words they grow by, it is an extension of their basic beliefs in their religious superiority and it will not stop, these fundamental radicals will not stop until they unite all under Allah, this is all they know, and it's terribly, terribly sad to watch a people struggle this way to find their own voice within a global community that does not view violence in the way they do.
This is a sad thing to witness for everyone involved, we are watching the death of an ancient culture, one rooted in antiquity and tyranny, but the culture itself is so valid and loved, it is the hate that must dissipate, but to many fundamental Muslims, hate is all they know when they look outside their own religion merely because their fundamental religious teachers fill them xenophobic hate, that is all they know. Allah help the youth of your faith grow in tolerance, teach them universal peace so they may find it also, or they will turn against you just as the crusaders turned against the Jews and the Protestants turned against the Catholics and the etc. turned against the etc. the nature of the world as taught by intelligence demands an eventual end to violence, no parent wants to see their child suffer or die, no parent of a cohesive and tolerance loving world would strap a bomb on a child and use them to murder innocent people.. ?
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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does
p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes. 
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