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Originally Posted by Rekna
I agree with all your initial points. My question is this, this accident has highlighted areas where regulations are not sufficient and this will lead to more regulations in those area's. Do you consider these added regulations a punishment to all companies in that field and if so is it a justified or unjustified punishment?
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Given the circumstances and potential damage to the environment and innocent people, no. The type of regulations I would not support are the types of regulations that don't actually add value or don't actually protect society or innocent people.
---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by roachboy
the points you lay out ace are all very nice & in some alternate fantasy capitalist universe they'd be adhered to (the initial points about obligations of various organizational layers)..but all you've really done here is restated the "bad apple" explanation for why things go wrong with capitalism.
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This "bad apple" thing you describe, is what I see as a given in a regulatory system. As I stated previously "regulators" are responsive, it is not probable that in a regulatory environment you can have proactive regulators.
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in your fantasy capitalism the system is perfect but people let it down.
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People are the system! What are you talking about? Corporations are legal entities run and operated by people. Government is a legal entity, run and operated by people. Justice is administered, determined and defined by people. Who is in a fantasy world?
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in your fantasy capitalism people are entirely dominated by capital, but that's cool with you, good even because capital does not let you down the way imperfect humans do. capitalism is a kind of god-term.
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Here is the issue - I say what I mean, but you project a bunch a garbage into it that is not there and then you form a response based on the garbage you projected. That is one way to always be right, but I see it as kinda silly.
To be clear - in my view, people control capital.
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particularly given the realities of the regulatory arrangement in this situation. which you don't seem to have bothered researching...
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Here we go again. You can't resist this kind of stuff can you? So, you want people to believe that I have not done research but you have, correct? I can be honest and say, I have done some research but there is still much I don't know and that I don't understand - for me this is a process, including, doing research, asking questions, doing more research, presenting my thoughts, doing more research and responding to questions and challenges. I am to assume that you come to the table having done all the research there is to do, or that you have all the answers, that you are perfect, that you sit in judgment of all others, that you are superior to me and the rest of us. Please, please, give it a rest - it is not working for ya!
---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
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I really doubt that anyone thought there were no risks of a major oil spill. Do you? "We" (all of us, one way or the other) made choices. BP has to be held accountable but I do not pretend to think that BP acted in a manner inconsistent with the risks of deep water oil exploration and drilling. If there is a probability of systems failing, sooner or later those systems will fail. So again the base issue is that oil drilling is not and never will be risk free.
---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by silent_jay
Not without any risk no, most things have a risk factor, hell even crossing the street, but had they had a relief well drilled before this happened, if relief wells were mandatory, rather than starting it after it's already spewing oil, the leak wouldn't have been as bad, but them starting the relief well after this one already blew, and that relief well taking 70-90 days to drill doesn't really help anything.
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O.k., I agree. And after the fact we can play the "if" game all day long, but there was a failure. BP will be held accountable for the failure, and we need to learn and improve systems and regulations based on that failure. I don't think we disagree, I am just very vocal about the blame game by our government, there lack of leadership, and the grand-standing.