Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
Don’t have an option…….. in the U.S. you always have an option to call yourself whom ever or what ever you wish, did you ever think maybe they call themselves gay because they ARE…. masculine or not, they are gay. There is nothing wrong with being gay!
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LISTEN TO THIS VERY, VERY CAREFULLY:
Would you like a category called "Whores," for women who who show sexual indulgence for men?
When the modern world was starting, women's sexuality for men was about as stigmatized as men's sexuality for men, except that women had some space to exhibit it within marriage, and men had some space to exhibit it disguised under male comradeship.
What if the society had decided to create a distinct clinical, scientific category of females at that time, based on a sample population of prostitutes, and called them, "women who like sex with men." And then the society went on to step up the hostility and stigma against women liking men.
How many women do you think, then would have gone on to take on a 'heterosexual' identity? You know what would have happened? Women would have competed with each other to show how much they hate sex with men. And, only a minority of real 'whores' would have cared to call themselves 'heterosexual.' Just like today, only the effeminate males care to call themselves 'homosexual.' If the modern world gave protection and social/ political power to the 'whores' they would even start fighting for their identity just as the third genders fight for the 'gay' identity today.
Would you justify the category of 'whores' for women? If not so, what makes you think that a category for men who like men is justified, just because the 'gay' identified fit into it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
A vain political statement is to say that ‘gay’ really means effeminate, and that with your negativity placed on the effeminate gender in general you imply that any effeminate human is less than a non-effeminate human.
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What makes you think that just because, I'm insisting on a separate identity for masculine gendered males, it meanst that I necessarily hate the feminine gendered? It's just a matter of giving space and identity to natural, biological identities. No one is superior or inferior. Recognizing the difference is the first step in order to fight for the dignity of male femininity. To hide it behind a false man to man desire label, does not one any good. It doesn't help male femininity and it doesn't held man's desire for men. It just gives undue power to male desire for women, and I guess, you'd be ok with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
So, feminine gendered males who are heterosexual are gay also, even if they prefer to have sex with women. I am beginning to see the pattern here, it’s not about sexuality, and it’s about being viewed as weak and effeminate, that is what makes you less of a man, to be and or act womanly, because women and feminism is…….. somehow……. less good?
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Hello, good morning!! So, you've finally woken up to the fact that male femininty is hated. But, lest you think I've created this hatred or stigma, please open your eyes and see. You society and to less extent mine have been creating this stigma for ages now. And, if you'd care to notice, that is what is behind the entire idea of making 'man's sexuality for men' as 'gay.' In order to stigmatize it. If you choose not to see this, its your problem.
So men who are not manly in their love for other men and manly in their love for women are not real men but are effeminized by the anti-man establishment, which I’m thinking seems to include all that is feminine, right? Please prove me wrong, I so want to be wrong, I so want to believe that the depth of your distrust for females and the effeminacy of the woman is not seen to you as such an utter weakness and controlling agent that we are to blame for the “ANTI-MAN” Agenda…… do you see how you sound NM?
Site this please, also, just because a man desires men physically, does not a woman make……. and “if” it did, then one must concur that a woman who desires women only, would she then be seen as a man in the east?
Primarily, I see humans, but o.k. for conversations point, I think you are confusing the lack of masculine homosexuals because they don’t stand out as ‘gay’ to you, but that doesn’t change that fact that they ARE gay (and in the bar), regardless of if they openly, effeminately “ACT” gay or not, still gay.
And being gay does “NOT” define ones base gender; DNA typically does that (outside of hermaphrodites) and I'm not aware of an actual, dna codified, third gender yet (sounds like a label to me "third gender").
I’m not done yet, I’ll be back after I’m done pretending to be whoever I want to be in this great country, I think I shall dress like a man and act like man, and yet not be a man. What does that make me? ME
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---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedmedia
Let me ask you this:
What do you want from us?
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Several things. To start with, at least be aware that there are other points of views, other ways of living.
Know that men too have issues. West has taken away all avenues for men to voice their real issues.
And if you believe there is a case for a change, do get together with the non-West, to change things. It's not that things in our society or the pre-modern West were hunky dory, either for men or for women. We need to make our societies more open, fair in a true sense -- and give people their true gender rights.