Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
NM, I Googled,…….. Pierre, the guy you quoted above, WAS and IS "gay" AND HE identifies HIMSELF as homosexual even though he does not care for anal sex. The questions is, are you ready to alter YOUR perceptions, my friend, as they just may be wrong, have you every considered that.
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You are so obsessed with upholding your own system that you fail to open up your mind to new wisdom.
I tried to see if there is any information on the net that says Pierre calls himself gay, I couldn't find it. Not that it matters. A lot of non-Queer males that like men exclusively are forced to take up 'gay' identity in the West, because they neither have any option nor knowledge. They may even think its a valid definition space. But, the point is they're always uncomortable. They live there like misfits. Perhaps you as a woman, and the gays don't care a shit about them. But the system of sexual orientation is still invalid, and wrongly defined.
So, what is important is that, Pierre feels uncomfortable with the gay identity and the way it constructs sexuality between men. And, he has been trying to bring up more or less the same issues that I've been doing. Except that, he is crippled without a comprehension of the concept of 'third gender.'
THE INABILITY OF WESTERNERS TO COMPREHEND HUMAN GENDER AS SEPARATE FROM HUMAN SEX IDENTITY, MAKES THEM UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THE CONCEPT OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION, EVEN IF THEY'RE GREATLY DISADVANTAGED BY IT.
---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
We are trying to tell you, gay is normal, even closet gay
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I've never said that third genders loving or lusting for men is not normal. All I'm saying their sexuality is not the same as a man's sexuality for men. Just as their sexuality is not the same as a woman's sexuality for men. They may have male genitalia, but their overall gender identity (outer sex + inner sex) is different from men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
he was gay…… but still gay…. still homosexual…..
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Yes, according to your society's definition. A Christian might as well claim that they are also sinners, as per their definitions. However, the problem is when both of you start claiming that this is the ultimate truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
by creating a third gender based in sexual orientation alone, you are separating men from men, YOU are separating humans from humans.
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(a) I'm not creating a third gender based in sexual orientation. I don't even validate sexual orientation. I am vouching for a third gender category without any references to sexual preferences. All feminine gendered males are one gender, regardless of whether they like men, women or other third genders.
(b) Your society already creates a third gender based in sexual orientation. In a society that is presumably divided on the basis of sexual orientation, your society still separate the effeminate heterosexuals and put them with the GLBT.
(c) So, why do you think, its not ok to divide males from males on the basis of whether they have a male identity or a female identity, but ok to divide them on the basis of whether or not they like women? Do I see personal interests coming here?
(d) Gender orientation is a natural, biological identity. It has a historical, cultural and biological basis. Besides, the feminine gendered males themselves want a separate identity. That is why they created a separate 'gay' identity. There has always been a separate identity for feminine gendered males becaues they wanted it.
(e) If feminine 'males who exclusively desire women' can be part of the 'queer' category, why can't masculine males who exclusively like men' be part of the 'straight' category. What is the BIG problem here? Is the problem your society's unwillingness to give the mainstream, manhood to men to love other men. They'd rather have them marginalized, away from the mainstream, deprived of manhood, clubbed with the third genders, so you can easily stereotype them and put them down as non-men?
---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
p.s. out of curiosity, do the men hold women's hands in public where you live, I think that sounds and portrays masculine and manly, what do you think?
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That's not considered manly if you want to know what the non-West (and the pre-industrialized west) thinks about this. Indeed, men in my society won't be seen dead holding hands with women. Things are being changed forcibly though, through westernization.
---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
Oh, so your talking about a bisexual who does not want to look as his attraction to males as any form of homosexuality of effeminacy, but still wants to have sex with a man every once in awhile, o.k.
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There is no such thing as a 'bisexual' man. There are just men. While sexuality for men is universal amongst men, sexuality for women is not so universal, naturally. Like it or not. Neither is it as constant or deep as the west forces men to pretend. It gives you power as a woman who enjoys men, but, this power comes at the cost of men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
The 'gay" space is not an effeminate gendered space, it is a sexual orientation space and
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It would be difficult for you to deny the historical evidences I've quoted to prove this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idyllic
it seems to me until you stop with the whole "female" vs. "male" space especially with the debasing and negativity you place on that of the "female" space, your society will continue to be troubled.
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a) When have I ever debased the "female" or "feminine male" space?
b) Is it a sin for men to ask for the privacy of their space? Does that make them anti-women? Is it against women's rights? Why is it ok, if a women asks their personal spaces to be protected?