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Psycho
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Originally Posted by Natural manhood
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In 1960, I was 10-years-old and growing up in a working class environment where male homosexual activity was the rule, not the exception. Its predominant manifestation was "sex with equality," thus including mutual masturbation and oral sex, but not anal sex (Bagley, 1997, p. 183). The latter was not even thought about, except for eventually learning that passive anal sex was an activity engaged in by apparently degraded males who thought themselves to be like women, or were labeled as such because they were accepting the status of being anally penetrated. As for ourselves living in a world where effeminate males did not exist, our sexual activities with other males generally reflected our social relationships: most sex with one's best friend, and lesser sex with lesser friends. We also had girlfriends and knew what was to be done sexually with them as it was so well understood via having learned the word "fuck" and its clear meaning. This explains why even the thought of "fucking" one's best friend was precluded: the activity or related desires was in violation of our equality based male bonding friendships. Sexual activity was also only a small part of our daily activities, and it was not an everyday activity although, at times, it was enjoyed more than once a day.
When I ventured in gay communities in 1978, a major new experience involved the learning about so-called "gay-identified" males, many still being teenagers, and they often were gender nonconformable. As a rule, they had also grown up thinking themselves to be the only ones with homo-sex desires in their neighborhoods, their school, or even in their town or city. Their feelings of isolation had been extreme, resulting in their belief that male homosexuality was exceptionally rare, and many had grown up perceiving themselves to be "freaks."
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The above is extremely important. Note that the straight males (just like today) amongst themselves, kept guarded the secret of universal male sexuality for men. The third genders or the effeminates (or the 'gay' identified were kept out of this secret. These 'fems' or males with an underdeveloped male identity have, generation after generation, grown up thinking they are the only ones to like men, whereas the straights are totally into women (a mistaken queer belief that led to the concept of 'sexual orientation').
The guy writing this account who obviously has exclusive interest in men, was part of the straight world, i.e., he was one of the guys, and that is why he knew the secrets of the straight world. It's the effeminacy of the 'gays' that made them feel 'different' and they obviously, miscalculated this difference to be related to their desire for men. It's the same story being repeated in my society now, and all the rest of the societies.
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NM, I Googled,…….. Pierre, the guy you quoted above, WAS and IS "gay" AND HE identifies HIMSELF as homosexual even though he does not care for anal sex. The questions is, are you ready to alter YOUR perceptions, my friend, as they just may be wrong, have you every considered that.
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Pierre is now in his forties, an active Canadian campaigner on behalf of gay youth. He is a French Canadian from New Brunswick:
I grew up in a neighbourhood where boys having sex with boys was the rule, on a regular to occasional basis. As an almost unbroken rule, the sex involved mutual masturbation as well as oral sex. Anal sex was generally non-existent. Given that this was a form of sexual interaction involving boys who had the most sex with their best friends, and lesser amounts of sex with lesser friends, male bonding factors applied - as well as sexism (Note A2).
That is, we were all aware of what we were to do with females, as some of us were doing - as in fucking - but would never think of doing that [anal intercourse] to one's best friend, considered to be one's equal (Note A3).
I grew up in the 'sixties (aged 10 to 20 during this period) and began to be homosexually active at least by the age of five ...[Photograph at a young age] By grade four [aged 10] I was one of the major actors in my Roman Catholic school, and I was part of a 2-hour production known as The Passion ... By then I was a sexual veteran, and was having sex with male friends on a regular basis.
Acting in The Passion produced revelations. As St. John, the Last Supper scene required that I have my head on Jesus' chest, which became my first (repeated) homo-sensual experience (Note A4), with a boy (a year older than I) who later became a hairdresser. I don't know if he is gay but, at the time, he was more like a sissy (who also took piano lessons), and he was not of the nature of the more 'rough' boys living in my working class community.
Nonetheless, he held an interest for me, probably because of the feelings which were repeatedly awakened on stage, and these feelings were yielding related thoughts during the Crucifixion scene. At the foot of the cross, Richard was up there, with no more than a cloth around his waist ... and I was thinking about how I would become friends with him - to have sex with him, of course! (Note A5)
Sex, for me, was nothing more than a normal part of life, as it was also part of almost every day - where most of the day was doing non-sexual things with one's friends. I was therefore never sexually deprived since a good number of males, especially including my best friends were sexually available.
We had sex in the woods, in garages, in abandoned buildings, in homes if no one else was there, in snow houses, in parked cars waiting to be fixed in a body shop, and in many other places. As a rule, only the males - and not the females - in the community knew about our sexual activities, which were so common that, if ever a male did not want to have homo-sex, he was considered to be abnormal - but no one put pressure on unwilling males to have sex, and we never behaved with each other in such a way. This was sex with equality, as well as with respect, as well as a male-bonding phenomenon ... My surprise was when I was 15 and two of the males who presented themselves to be very macho - and were also hockey players - were the only two who ever kissed me - on the lips!
I was shocked by this, for this violated a major taboo, as kissing was coded to be only an activity we did with females ... Now of course, kissing males is considered to be very normal, as are other homo-sex activities such as anal sex. Must say, however, that anal sex still does not hold much fascination for me. I never experienced anal sex until I was about 28, and it was not a very big deal.
In my community, an older boy exploiting a younger boy never existed (Note A6), although there were certain older males who were of interest to me and with whom I related sexually. At no time, however, was I related to as if I was a female, and at no time did males ever violate the will of another. Given that so many males knew what was happening, and so many of us freely talked about it ... we were very protective of each other, and the last thing we wanted would have been trouble - thus leading to the greater community discovering the highly enjoyed homo-sex part of our lives.
By the age of 11 I had been studying European geography, but was not yet aware of homosexuality as a universal phenomenon. Merchant ships came into port about a quarter mile from where I lived; as I was a nice kid I would have been worth a fortune on the streets. One day I came home with a large bag of German candies given to me by the wife of the first mate on a German boat.
My mother was alarmed and decided to tell me about the dangers of sailors, when it comes to little boys. Only much later did I tell her what my mind was processing as a result of what she told me. It was the first time that I understood about males relating sexually everywhere, even in Europe - something I had discovered naturally from the age of five onwards.
[Pierre's mother and the rest of his large French-Canadian family have been supportive and accepting of his homosexuality. Pierre never according to this account, experienced any psychological crisis in developing a homosexual or gay identity
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Developing a homosexual or gay identity, no psychological crisis, NM, he was gay…… We are trying to tell you, gay is normal, even closet gay, but still gay…. still homosexual….. by creating a third gender based in sexual orientation alone, you are separating men from men, YOU are separating humans from humans. It is the west that is striving to make it simplified, you are a man or a woman and who you have sex with is your choice, enjoy with common sense and common courtesy, other than that, if you wish to define your sexual orientation, please choose, we offer (at this time): hetero, homo, L,G,B,T,A etc..... we will still respect that you are a human first and foremost, of course, you don't even have to choose at all. This is the West I know.
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Also, you said something about this not involving woman, but again you mince words, and semantics to serve your own agenda
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Originally Posted by Natural manhood
That's pretty unhealthy and harmful for men, who are also, now totally dependant on women for all their needs -- social, emotional, physical ... everything. And thus they become prone to be exploited by women. And prone to being exploited in the society generally. And that is what's happening in the world today.
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I believe most women in this country and a lot of other countries and many men the world over would find this statement pathetically gynophobic….. I tire of your insinuations of feminine inferiority and masculine superior thinking. Your way of labeling gender orientation, sexual inclination, blah blah blah orientation is self serving and more narrow that anything I’ve heard, you remove the true sense of equality and replace it with stereotypical jargon that make me feel as through you are tossing a blanket of dreary human condemnation from the bigoted, narrow minded, uneducated, fear heated, hate mongers of our past. I don’t know if this debate is worth the effort, I fear it may just be that you refuse to see anything opposite from what you, in my opinion, have been feed by other “Men” term used loosely, to help you distrust effeminacy in any form, so sad.
As I am led to believe by your argument, to be "Penetrated" is a feminine quality, and if you like to be penetrated you are either and effeminate male or a woman, both are part of the "anti-man" agenda to you...... this IS how you make it sound. If, however, you are a giver in the sexual play game, as in you like to stick it to the women and stick it to the effeminate men then you are indeed a "real" "Manly" man, because, well, because they say so... because they are: Men, Men, Men, Men...... now all one really needs is a hairy mustache like spongebob...... yea, whatever  . I think I'm done here.
---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------
for Men Men Men, see Youtube, SPONGE BOB-NOW THAT WE ARE MEN
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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does
p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes. 
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