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Old 05-02-2010, 12:51 AM   #126 (permalink)
dippin
Crazy, indeed
 
Location: the ether
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Member View Post
With REASONABLE SUSPICION they can ask for proof of citizenship. LAWFUL CONTACT allows the LEO to possibly gather ARTICULABLE FACTS on ANY person, be it a suspected shoplifter, murderer, bank robber, etc. LAWFUL CONTACT allows a LEO to potentially gather ARTICULABLE FACTS that lead to either REASONABLE SUSPICION that allows him/her to detain for further questioning or PROBABLE CAUSE that allows him/her to arrest the suspect. If not enough or no articulable facts are discovered, then everybody goes on their way. In fact, the subject would have been free to tell the cop to take a hike up until the point that the cop developed REASONABLE SUSPICION.

This isn't a new thing, it's been around for quite a while.

You do understand that a LEO can LEGALLY and CONSTITUTIONALLY make 'lawful contact' with ANYONE for ANY reason whether or not they suspect that ANY crime has been committed, and has been able to do so for as long as our country has had laws, and NOW you're claiming that illegals should be exempt from this?

What I don't think is being understood is that in Arizona border areas this will actually be a useful tool for that area's LEOs. The federal agencies are stretched out and having the local LE be able to help them out is going to result in that many more illegal immigrants being apprehended within several miles/minutes of the border than most people realize. (OPINION ALERT...) Further north, I don't think it's going to matter nearly as much; local LE are pretty much going to do what they want. Take Phoenix for example, Mayor Phil Gordon doesn't want this law anymore than you, despite Phoenix being the kidnap capitol as a direct result of illegal immigration.
Yes, I understand that LEO can make lawful contact with anyone they please. That is precisely the point. They can make lawful contact with anyone they please. They CAN'T ask for ID or proof of citizenship from anyone they please unless they have PROBABLE CAUSE.

The new Arizona law now allows LEO to ask for ID and proof of citizenship of anyone they please, as long as there is reasonable suspicion that the person is in the US illegally. The problem with that, however, is that other than actually catching someone crossing the border or who looks like they just crossed the border, I've yet to see any "ARTICULABLE FACTS" that do not unfairly single out certain ethnic groups. See, the problem is not with the treatment of the illegals. The problem is with the treatment of Americans. See, if the law required everyone to carry proof of citizenship at all times, it'd be one thing (and if the checking process is so quick, why not?), but the law doesn't say that. The law is purposefully vague, and inevitably makes a group of Americans targets as well.
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