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Old 05-01-2010, 06:28 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Anonymous Member View Post
The article states that illegal immigrants were with the bundles. And, given the area, I have no reason to doubt that is exactly what it was.

And now, I'm going to correct something I keep seeing.....

The term "Reasonable suspicion" (RS) has been tossed about in the news without a proper definition, almost as if it is some sort of magic key that allows law enforcement to violate civil rights. All me to present a quick lesson in law.....

Reasonable suspicion=a series of ARTICULABLE FACTS that when taken as a whole, would give a the average person reasonable suspicion that a particular act is being or has been commited.

Articulable Fact=tangible evidence that is witnessed directly by any of the five senses.

In the case of immigration, you can have manner of dress (clothes not typical of area or dirty as if crawling through the desert), lack of english speaking skills (despite being in a predominantly english speaking location), location (eg, and area where illegal immigrants are known to be, travel through, or frequent), and attempting to avoid contact with law enforcement (many ways of doing that including in-your-face tactics).
Heck, even hygiene can play into it. But these are just examples, and there are a number of ways to build RS with articulable facts, as long as they are tangible.

The confusion arises in that, in most cases, the average person isn't trained or experienced enough to see the articulable facts that law enforcement does. That is why they have to be tangible; the law enforcement officer needs to be able to present concrete facts to build his/her particular 'reasonable suspicion' and thus make a lawful detention and/or arrest. In short, as a LEO, you'd better have some concrete stuff, hunches don't play out well.

Now, keep in mind, RS only gives the LEO the legal right to detain and investigate further. It does NOT give them the right to arrest. For that, they need Probable Cause. So, once a LEO has RS, he can keep probing until he can determine whether or not a crime has been commited. If not, the person goes on their way, usually inside a very short time frame. If more articulable facts are found that will lead an average person that a crime is probably being commited, then the LEO can legally arrest the person.

Bottom line, if the LEO approaches you and asks for immigration documents, then he has gathered sufficient tangible facts that give him the legal right to do so.
And of course it is completely out of the question that the discretion afforded to law enforcement officers by this law would be abused. The concept of probable cause has certainly never been abused.

I'm confused about the definition of Articulable Fact. On the one hand, you seem to say that articulable facts are sufficiently obvious for the average person to pick them out. Then later you say that the average person actually can't pick them out, that we need to rely on the expert opinion of the local police, who are certainly not immune to the failings of humanity, who are frequently considered credible by default by the legal system, who are certainly not immune to political and social pressures, and who are operating in a political environment which is overtly hostile to those suspected of being illegal.

Meh. I've dealt with law enforcement enough to know that you get just as many good guys as you do thugs.
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