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Old 04-29-2010, 04:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan View Post
My understanding is such that absolute determinism is not a reality. Rather, I feel it is complex mix of influences arising the "the way things are" and the myriad choices made by all that impact upon each of us on a continual basis. We are both a product of our environment and an agent with in it.
Yes, when you put it this way, it sounds compelling. The problem I have with determinism is that it overlooks our capacity for a certain level of agency. Though agency is often referred to in a moral context, I can see how it can be considered when observing our everyday life in other areas.

Smeth, I understand your interest leans more towards our relation to the universe in a scientific way, but I myself tend to look at the whole package of material existence and moral life. Without agency and a certain level of free will, I don't think many of humanity's greatest accomplishments could have been achieved. Much of the things of great worth were created by "going against the grain."

I find it hard to believe that they occurred as an outcome of a chain of events without some strong human influence that had some input in terms of the path that is taken. It's all relational. Causality is a force to be reckoned with, but I don't think it renders free will an impossibility; it merely renders it a limited human capacity. We don't respond to stimuli as plants do. We even act in ways inconsistent with much of the animal world.

If human agency were that powerless, I think we'd still be years, decades, if not centuries behind where we are now both technologically and culturally. Much of what has been achieved came at a great cost, at such great risks with a long line of failures.

Of course, it could be argued that this drive to accomplish is a part of our programming. But then giving up and calling it quits would be too.
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Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 04-29-2010 at 06:28 PM.. Reason: typo
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