Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - There is no law for the income tax, man beats IRS in court

Teknikid · 04-14-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robot_parade

I didn't know the definition of the word 'capitation', so I looked it up:

For fun, here's the text of the 16th Amendment:

Here we go.

'The Congress' - ie, the legislative branch, not the executive (president) or the judiciary (Supreme court and lower courts).

'shall have the power to lay and collect taxes' - OK! They can pass laws, subject to whatever restrictions are about to follow and any other constitutional restrictions, to lay and collect taxes. Good so far.

'on incomes' - aha! So an income tax, not a poll tax (or 'capitation' tax, if you prefer), or any other kind of tax. On income. Money I make.

'from whatever source derived' - Such as working and getting a salary. Or investing and getting dividends. Or inheriting money. Or by mowing someone's yard and getting paid for it. Or someone handing me money. Or finding money on the street. Or digging up buried treasure. Or selling something.

'without apportionment among the several States' - ok. So the tax go to the Feds, not the States.

'without regard to any census or enumeration.' - Again, making it clear that this isn't a poll tax, or based upon someone being counted by the government, or it some sort of government list or database. If I didn't have a birth certificate, or wasn't counted by the census, or wasn't notified by the government that I was supposed to pay taxes, I'm still responsible for paying them (if congress lays a tax on some income I make).

So, there in plain english is the law that allows congress to collect a federal income tax. One might try to quibble that 'the IRS' isn't the congress, but remember that the constitution also grants congress the right to raise an army...but noone expects to see congressmen going into battle (unfortunately). The IRS doesn't decide what the taxes will be, congress does. The IRS just oversees collection.

So, feel free to refute my interpretation, or admit your error. Unfortunately I've been on the Internet long enough to have high hopes for neither.

No one likes to pay taxes. However, we should recognize where they go. In the US, that means:

o The military.
o Medicare and Medicaid.
o Public education.
o Regulation (EPA, FDA, TLA, etc.)
o Law enforcement (FBI), intellegence (CIA), and homeland security.
o Various infrastructure projects in the states (roads, the interstate highway system, etc.

Let's pretend your fantasy is reality, and noone has to pay federal taxes. All of the above goes away. Effectively, we have no federal government, no 'U' in USA. 50 separate countries. How is that better than what we have now? Essentially we become like Europe, southeast Asia, South America, or Africa. Is that better than what we have now? Not really. Some of those countries are approximately equal to ours as far as standard of living goes. Most are worse. Some much worse. Citizens in all of them still have to pay taxes. Most of the countries with an approximately equal standard of living pay more taxes than we do. So what do you hope to achieve? Selfishly not pay taxes while the rest of us do? Achieve utopia, where you don't pay taxes, but recieve all the benefits?

The "apportionment" clause of that does not mean what you seem to think it means. An apportioned tax meant the bill given the state by the feds was proportional to its population. It has nothing to do with the whether the states get any of the money.

Half of the items you listed aren't even constitutional for the feds. And in regards to 'selfishly not pay taxes' as you put it, here we go again with that "pay your fair share" mentality. What for? What are these wonderful benefits you speak of? I'm taxed and get nothing tangible in return. I refer to income taxes only. We must have some tax structure, but they can be something other than stealing the sweat off one's back. Those constitutional taxes are already specified in Article 1 section 8 of the Constitution. This "fiar share" crap should stop. A good chunk of it goes only to pay interest on the national debt. You call that a benefit? It is - for those reaping the profits on the interest payments! Wow, my tax bucks at work.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

I have read the books "The Law That Never Was." I am amazed that we are still allowing this fraud to continue. They say ignorance of the law is no excuse, and they are right. This is one of many laws that shoud be examined by everyone for its lack of validity. What about the tax resistance folks who asked the IRS to show them the law that makes them liable for the tax? If there is such a law, why doesn't the IRS tell them? All they have to is say "Look, here is it in section X, paragraph Y, subsection Z. Now shut up and go home." They won't do it. They won't because they can't. If you get a speeding ticket, you will find on the citation (and often times quoted from the citing officer) the statute that makes one liable for the fine on the citation. If state troopers can do it, so can the IRS. Tommy Cryer is on to something. We should all get on that bandwagon.