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Originally Posted by filtherton
Do you actually have your analysis available, or is this just another one of those "I'm Ace and this is what seems plausible to me and so now you must argue with me about it as though it is fact" things?
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I will be 50 years old this year, I have been poor, what some consider "rich", back down and on the way up again. In high school and college I did research papers on the subject, in the 70's and 80's it was a major topic of discussion. I intimately know poor people, "rich" people, people who were once poor and now "rich", etc. I have been in public debates and have given civic speeches and presentations on the subject. I had a corporate job where they supported my outside activities in this area. And I still devour volumes of data on the subject. Other than a pure and simple appeal for an understanding of the rational nature (either consciously applied or not) of decision making by "poor" people, I don't know where to start, given my belief that nothing I present will make a difference at this point.
So, I ask the question directly and simply, do you believe "poor" people tend to make rational decisions? If you think they do, does apply to economic decisions? It is very possible for you or others to believe that "poor" people are poor because they make irrational economic decisions, but in my experience that is less often true than the opposite. Actually, in my experience "poor" people on a whole may be more rational with money than "rich" people. In my view this question is at the core of what one's expectation of the role of government is in helping "poor" people, it also defines what one will accept and reject on what they will accept as evidence. Reading the postings on how this has progressed it is pretty clear to me that there is an element of not wanting to believe or pretending not to believe what is pretty obvious. And given that, there is nothing I can do.
---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by filtherton
As far as connections with families being weakened, I think you're overstating the power of a marriage license here. A father's (or mother's) connection to their family exists completely independently of whether or not they are in a legally recognized marriage with the other biological parent.
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Look at this from a big picture point of view - the things that connect a family include many factors, one being the financial connection of willing to work and sacrifice for one's family. Another factor is the connection being reinforced by daily contact. If we take both of these away, it has a big impact, especially on males in the ages up to about 35.
---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
ace...IMO, what is rational is that most people want to do better for themselves and and their families and view federal assistance programs as a temporary safety net in times of need rather than a way of life.
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I don't disagree. Nothing I said is consistent with your point about "a way of life", however, using an example not necessarily involving "poor", you have the phenomenon of something like subsidized housing in New York. You use "way of life" however, why would a person give up highly subsidized housing? They generally won't, unless there is a compelling reason. You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am one of those people who say, "well they get pregnant to get more welfare". I am not - the the issue is a bit more complicated than that, but not so complicated that it can not be understood, modeled and predicted..
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Anecdotes and undocumented assumptions, based on a pre-conceived ideology that those "scamming the system" represent anything more than a very small minority, are not very convincing.
And the fact remains that most of those use benefit from federal assistance do so for relatively short, transitional periods of time.
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Prenatal care lasts about 9 months.
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So, no, my views would not be similar to yours.
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You have not clearly presented your views.