Quote:
Originally Posted by Cimarron29414
I'm not touching this other than to say that it is completely untrue that the GOP offered no alternatives. With all due respect, how could we start a discussion on this when such a fundamental point to your post is so inaccurate?
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Then that's the problem, isn't it? What was their alternative and why haven't they been pushing it more.
I don't think my OP was fundamentally inaccurate if the GOP isn't doing anything to talk about and educate the people on their alternative. All I hear is how they oppose and have people ready to fight the constitutionality of the bill if it is passed through reconciliation.
Cimarron, I am not trying to bash the GOP. I just think they are committing political suicide by NOT pushing their alternative.
---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton
I'd be more careful before claiming to know what "the people" think. I think that the Democrats are more fucked if they don't pass anything.
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I just stated my opinion and what my observations are from talking to friends and people I know. My OP is nothing more than that.
As for the Dems being fucked if they don't pass it. If the polls are right, I think it's the complete opposite, especially when the taxes go up, people are being told what they can and cannot eat or do (via taxation), and so on. And if people have to wait 4 years for this to take effect...lol.... yeah.
---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
I don't know if this goes as far as political suicide. Maybe this is damned if you do, damned if you don't.
My opinion of this whole thing is skewed, as I'm writing this from a nation that's had health care in its current form for longer than I can remember. Its buildup predates me. Furthermore, the man credited for its development and inception is considered a national political hero.
Anyway, my view of what's going on south of the border is this: you're doing it wrong, but it's better than doing nothing — and the system can be reworked and rejigged after it's implemented.
I think the problem with most Americans is that they're too damned paranoid of socialism to actually develop and implement a workable system parallel to the systems in place in much of the developed world.
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Perhaps. But I would rather wait and find a workable solution that is actually put out for people to read and a Congress that is allowed to debate and take the time to find answers, than be ramrodded and "we'll change it as we go".
I can also say this from personal experience. Our female house guest who is on medicaid was able to have her tubes tied (primarily mandated to), and has since had 3 infections due to the hospital and doctors not taking time and effort to make sure the job has been done right. The treatment she got before was next to nothing, the treatment during was shoddy at best and since has been horrendous.
My wife, who had good insurance when she got hers tied, received great medical care BEFORE DURING and AFTER.
Both were treated at the same hospital.
The lesson I learned is that private insurance made a huge difference. Medicaid and taxpayers paying paid far more for the shoddy treatment than we did for my wife's. IF this is an example of the future of medical treatment... FUCK THAT.
However, we need to overhaul and change this so that ALL PEOPLE GET THE SAME MEDICAL CARE regardless of ability to pay or not. I do not see it in this bill that will be passed with "reconciliation". Nor, are the GOP proposing anything that is worthy to even discuss.
If the Dems want to make Health Care their legacy, than do so with a bill that BETTERS the system and HELPS EVERYONE EQUALLY. Don't just pass something to pass something and say "we changed it". Because "we changed it" could mean nothing more than "we made it worse".