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Sion · 06-13-2003, 07:14 PM

WhoaitsZ's thread about the "sin" of sodomy/homosexuality got me thinking about something.

Religious people quote the Bible all the time. When they do, they usually take the attitude that the Bible is the end-all and be-all of truth, which, for them, it may be. But, what bothers me about this is not the fact that I, as a non-believer, do not accept the Bible as truth. Rather, what bothers me about quoting the Bible as an absolute reference for truth is that no one ever supplies context or even the name of the speaker.

from the above reference thread, these Bible verses were quoted:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" (Lev 18:22).

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall be put to death: their blood is upon them" (Lev 20:13).

"God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error" (Rom 1:26-27).

"Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers - none of these will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 6:9-10).

But no context was given. Nor was the speaker identified. Granted, in many case, the book of the Bible from which the verse comes will tell you who did the speaking, at least if you are well-versed in your knowledge of the Bible. But not always. And what about those of us who are not biblical scholars. How are we to know (and why should we care?) who said ""You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" in the book of Leviticus?

now, the easy answer is that the speaker is irrelevant, as the Bible is the word of God. The issue for me, essentially, is a non-believer's skepticism with regard to the Bible. The general consensus is that the Bible is the word of God, spoken through man. And THAT is what I have the biggest problem with. Humanity has such a tendency to misrepresent, misinterpret, and misuse things that I cannot trust the Bible to be an accurate rendering of anything. Even if I believe completely in the Christian conception of reality, how could I possibly trust a book that has been changed and translated and retranslated and reinterpreted so many times over the course of the intervening centuries?

Like the old joke about the monk who went back and reread the original document from which his order based its faith, being the first person in centuries to do so, only to find out "The word is celebrate, NOT celibate." I just dont trust humanity enough to have faith in a document that has gone through so many revisions.

so, what do you believers think of all this?

06-13-2003, 07:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	bible question WhoaitsZ's thread about the "sin" of sodomy/homosexuality got me thinking about something. Religious people quote the Bible all the time. When they do, they usually take the attitude that the Bible is the end-all and be-all of truth, which, for them, it may be. But, what bothers me about this is not the fact that I, as a non-believer, do not accept the Bible as truth. Rather, what bothers me about quoting the Bible as an absolute reference for truth is that no one ever supplies context or even the name of the speaker. from the above reference thread, these Bible verses were quoted: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" (Lev 18:22). "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall be put to death: their blood is upon them" (Lev 20:13). "God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error" (Rom 1:26-27). "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers - none of these will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 6:9-10). But no context was given. Nor was the speaker identified. Granted, in many case, the book of the Bible from which the verse comes will tell you who did the speaking, at least if you are well-versed in your knowledge of the Bible. But not always. And what about those of us who are not biblical scholars. How are we to know (and why should we care?) who said ""You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" in the book of Leviticus? now, the easy answer is that the speaker is irrelevant, as the Bible is the word of God. The issue for me, essentially, is a non-believer's skepticism with regard to the Bible. The general consensus is that the Bible is the word of God, spoken through man. And THAT is what I have the biggest problem with. Humanity has such a tendency to misrepresent, misinterpret, and misuse things that I cannot trust the Bible to be an accurate rendering of anything. Even if I believe completely in the Christian conception of reality, how could I possibly trust a book that has been changed and translated and retranslated and reinterpreted so many times over the course of the intervening centuries? Like the old joke about the monk who went back and reread the original document from which his order based its faith, being the first person in centuries to do so, only to find out "The word is celebrate, NOT celibate." I just dont trust humanity enough to have faith in a document that has gone through so many revisions. so, what do you believers think of all this? __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...