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Old 02-11-2010, 11:01 AM   #83 (permalink)
pan6467
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Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
Pan, I don't disagree with your stated problems; I disagree with your plan, and despite what you say, promoting the well-being of all people is a focus of liberalism and various forms of socialism.

Your plan will eliminate many imports (i.e. some products would seek markets other than the U.S.), and raise the prices on many others (raised costs = raised prices). This will spike the CPI and inflation, as would arbitrarily raising wages domestically.

I'm a proponent of a balanced mixed economy. That means I value markets that are regulated and fair. I also value market values being set primarily by market forces: namely, supply and demand. Too much intervention in this is a bad thing, as it discourages/dampens competition, which hurts everyone.

I would like it very much for Third World countries to raise their standard of living. Unfortunately, this would come at the cost of the standard of living in developed nations. Put another way: a higher quality of life to the Third World will come at the cost of the developed world: average prices around the world would go up. America would see an end to cheap goods. And they would have tougher competition for labour pools as well. This would send shockwaves through world markets, and I think you would find an even greater disparity between the rich and poor in the U.S. Though the Third World would have more livable lives, which I guess isn't such a bad thing. Sacrifices would have to be made, I suppose. America (et al) has had to too good for too long.

Like you said, you can't have it both ways.

I'd sooner support a plan in the form of widespread subsidies, grants, and tax breaks.
Not if EVERY country is self reliant. Granted that is impossible, but every country can make their own cars, roads, infrastructures. Some may need food, some oil, whatever... that is what you trade for. IT is possible. IT is extremely possible for EVERY country to be primarily self reliant and advanced. The only people who would not want this are people who want to keep other countries down.

You don't send jobs to countries with little to no human rights, sweatshops, dictatorships, etc and expect those conditions to change when you are part of the problem.

You work to educate, you have humanitarian missions to make sure those people are fed and medically cared for but YOU GIVE NOTHING to reward those governments until they change.

Your argument is one that does not take into account the self sovereignty and reliance of a nation. If Nigeria starts building an infrastructure and creates jobs, then Nigerians will stay in Nigeria and the country will begin to prosper. If the US became more self reliant, stopped importing and started making things again, the wages would go up. There would not have to be sacrifices.

You build an infrastructure and you keep it safe and you add on to it.

The only way inflation will happen is if those top 1-5-10% decide not to give up what they have.

The top 1-5-10% have us so brainwashed and so skewed that we are to believe ANYTHING other than the same old same old laissaez faire, let them control everything... will fail and we'll be worse off.

I argue the opposite. I argue that if we promote national sovereignty and self reliance (as much as possible), no longer sending jobs to countries with dictatorships, spotty human rights and so on... the WORLD will be better as a whole not just the US.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derwood View Post
if you only imported goods that were manufactured with the U.S. standards of labor regulations......well, you wouldn't import anything anymore
Then we have a problem that we should be fixing. IF we are supposed to be this great country (and I believe we are) then we need to make sure we do not do business with countries that have spotty human rights, dictatorships and so on.

Trust me, the US is the world's largest consumer nation, companies will do what they have to, to make sure they sell product here. But, what we have done is wanted cheaper so we shipped jobs to those countries and paid less and spiraled downward. Even our "human rights" advocates don't speak out anymore. It's time we show that what we are.

We are the US, we are the greatest nation to ever grace this planet and we do not need nor will we condone human rights violations, dictatorships and so on.
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