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roachboy · 01-22-2010, 07:32 AM

the state of nature thing comes from teaching the main texts probably way too many times. after a while they just look like deductive systems. it's particular, i suspect, that viewpoint. not wrong, just particular (not being able to see much of anything in the constructs other than deductive systems...so the problem is in the bases for the deductions rather than in what is deduced...) so it's not a romantic thing in my world...the state of nature is a modeling problem.

what capitalism is...it's a deceptively tricky question. my inner marxist has been taught to think in terms of:
separation of ownership from production....this is a tendency present from the earliest phases of textile production in a more-or-less capitalist mode that seems to my inner marxist (and to others inner marxists) to culminate in the creation of stock in the modern sense around 1870.
mass production of standardized goods....another tendency present from the earliest phases, one which in the end refers to alot of things (organization of production, nature of outputs, orientation around economies of scale)...it also refers to lots of different processes of manufacturing....all of which seem to the inner marxist to acquire a full expression in the assembly line model (which was put together by around 1910).

i mention these things because there's a whole lot of teleological thinking involved with this notion of capitalism...and this from a viewpoint shaped by my inner marxist, so from a viewpoint that was articulated in critical opposition to capitalism (even as the particularities of that opposition repeated a bunch of features from what it opposed)...

so yeah, it's definitely worth trying to walk into a different kind of understanding.
the question i suppose is where to start.

for example, one kinda axiomatic position my inner marxist adopts (and which i've thought about/through alot apart from the urgings of the inner marxist) is the impossibility of separating economic and political activities.
but like alot of things, this is maybe best argued for by way of demonstration around something specific. induction like.

so yeah, it'd be an interesting project to attempt.
where to start?

01-22-2010, 07:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	the state of nature thing comes from teaching the main texts probably way too many times. after a while they just look like deductive systems. it's particular, i suspect, that viewpoint. not wrong, just particular (not being able to see much of anything in the constructs other than deductive systems...so the problem is in the bases for the deductions rather than in what is deduced...) so it's not a romantic thing in my world...the state of nature is a modeling problem. what capitalism is...it's a deceptively tricky question. my inner marxist has been taught to think in terms of: separation of ownership from production....this is a tendency present from the earliest phases of textile production in a more-or-less capitalist mode that seems to my inner marxist (and to others inner marxists) to culminate in the creation of stock in the modern sense around 1870. mass production of standardized goods....another tendency present from the earliest phases, one which in the end refers to alot of things (organization of production, nature of outputs, orientation around economies of scale)...it also refers to lots of different processes of manufacturing....all of which seem to the inner marxist to acquire a full expression in the assembly line model (which was put together by around 1910). i mention these things because there's a whole lot of teleological thinking involved with this notion of capitalism...and this from a viewpoint shaped by my inner marxist, so from a viewpoint that was articulated in critical opposition to capitalism (even as the particularities of that opposition repeated a bunch of features from what it opposed)... so yeah, it's definitely worth trying to walk into a different kind of understanding. the question i suppose is where to start. for example, one kinda axiomatic position my inner marxist adopts (and which i've thought about/through alot apart from the urgings of the inner marxist) is the impossibility of separating economic and political activities. but like alot of things, this is maybe best argued for by way of demonstration around something specific. induction like. so yeah, it'd be an interesting project to attempt. where to start? __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-22-2010 at 07:34 AM..