Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - How much respect do military members deserve?

Slims · 01-11-2010, 11:29 AM

Deference...None

Respect.....at the very least you shouldn't shun those who are in the military, spit on them, etc. Whether you agree with them or not, most are honestly trying to serve their Country while bettering themselves as people. I am not implying you owe the Military any sort of debt, but soldiers get trashed a lot simply because they are in the Military with no regard for who they are as people (the opposite is often true as well and is equally sickening).

Sure, the average enlisted soldier is not going to tip the high end of the IQ scale, or hold a PHD. However, put it in context and look at the whole man when you look at a particular soldier:

A lot of these young guys who are 'brainwashed' were on a trajectory of disaster, but thanks to the Military are now working very hard in an honest job and are pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps....just because that person is not particularly educated does not lessen the difficulty of the path he has chosen to walk through life.

I don't know of a single corporation in the world that could take from the same pool of 'employees' the Military draws from and turn them into productive, hard working non-criminals who are able to benefit both the company and themselves. You may find the methods used disagreeable, but they are necessary in order to take people from such disparate backgrounds and turn them into productive members of a society.

As far as your buddies outlook is concerned:

1. You do seem to be a pussy. The fact that you were extremely distressed by your buddies comments but did nothing about it except seek sympathy on TFP points me to that conclusion. If someone says something you feel is so far outside the pale of respectable conversation then you need to call them out on it. If someone calls you a pussy then you have to step up and enter into a conflict of some kind (not necessarily physical) because your 'buddy' decided to straight up dominate you....and you allowed him to.

2. I don't believe the Military brainwashes people into being conservative. Rather, the "make love not war" types typically don't seek employment with the Military, which leaves.....conservatives, or at least people who are willing to enter into a conflict (same reason you probably shouldn't enlist).

3. As far as the comments your buddy made....they are silly and not appropriate, but so what? He was never in a position to do anything but execute the orders he was given. So he went out on patrol and probably got shot at by a bunch of Arabs over and over again. If you honestly believe him to be 'uneducated and stupid' as you stated the vast majority of the Military seems to be, what conclusions do you expect him to arrive at? So if you agree that such prejudices are inevitable when you take an uneducated idiot and put him in that sort of situation then why would you be personally offended when he displays the expected behavior? You might be surprised to realize that the Military doesn't try to force people to change their belief's (that WOULD be brainwashing), but rather puts extremely harsh penalties on prejudicial, discriminatory, or bigoted actions. He can want to see " Dead Haji's" all he wants, but if he starts shooting people who don't need to be shot then he is going to be locked up real quick.

4. With regard to you losing your high-school friend: If you approached him as you approached this thread I am not surprised. Because in this thread you seem to complain that the Military guys don't agree with you but they don't-have-a-leg-to-stand-on because they are all stupid and uneducated. I am Military, and I have a lot of liberal friends (I went to an ultra liberal university). I have been called all kinds of offensive things by people who realize for the first time what I actually do for a living.

People also assume that I am stupid or ignorant simply because I am a member of the Military. I also get told 'how it is' in Afghanistan and how horrible the 'Military Occupation' is and how many 'atrocities' we are committing...by people who have never left the Country and have never met an actual Afghan. I don't pull the "I'm Military and thus know best" card because it is ridiculous and stifles debate. However, I will pull the "I have been there" card. All to often someone will refuse to listen altogether to what I have to say after they initiate a discussion....apparently they expect to be able to hurl poorly reasoned arguments based largely on ignorance without me responding in any way.

Edited to somewhat clarify my response.

01-11-2010, 11:29 AM	#11 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Deference...None Respect.....at the very least you shouldn't shun those who are in the military, spit on them, etc. Whether you agree with them or not, most are honestly trying to serve their Country while bettering themselves as people. I am not implying you owe the Military any sort of debt, but soldiers get trashed a lot simply because they are in the Military with no regard for who they are as people (the opposite is often true as well and is equally sickening). Sure, the average enlisted soldier is not going to tip the high end of the IQ scale, or hold a PHD. However, put it in context and look at the whole man when you look at a particular soldier: A lot of these young guys who are 'brainwashed' were on a trajectory of disaster, but thanks to the Military are now working very hard in an honest job and are pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps....just because that person is not particularly educated does not lessen the difficulty of the path he has chosen to walk through life. I don't know of a single corporation in the world that could take from the same pool of 'employees' the Military draws from and turn them into productive, hard working non-criminals who are able to benefit both the company and themselves. You may find the methods used disagreeable, but they are necessary in order to take people from such disparate backgrounds and turn them into productive members of a society. As far as your buddies outlook is concerned: 1. You do seem to be a pussy. The fact that you were extremely distressed by your buddies comments but did nothing about it except seek sympathy on TFP points me to that conclusion. If someone says something you feel is so far outside the pale of respectable conversation then you need to call them out on it. If someone calls you a pussy then you have to step up and enter into a conflict of some kind (not necessarily physical) because your 'buddy' decided to straight up dominate you....and you allowed him to. 2. I don't believe the Military brainwashes people into being conservative. Rather, the "make love not war" types typically don't seek employment with the Military, which leaves.....conservatives, or at least people who are willing to enter into a conflict (same reason you probably shouldn't enlist). 3. As far as the comments your buddy made....they are silly and not appropriate, but so what? He was never in a position to do anything but execute the orders he was given. So he went out on patrol and probably got shot at by a bunch of Arabs over and over again. If you honestly believe him to be 'uneducated and stupid' as you stated the vast majority of the Military seems to be, what conclusions do you expect him to arrive at? So if you agree that such prejudices are inevitable when you take an uneducated idiot and put him in that sort of situation then why would you be personally offended when he displays the expected behavior? You might be surprised to realize that the Military doesn't try to force people to change their belief's (that WOULD be brainwashing), but rather puts extremely harsh penalties on prejudicial, discriminatory, or bigoted actions. He can want to see " Dead Haji's" all he wants, but if he starts shooting people who don't need to be shot then he is going to be locked up real quick. 4. With regard to you losing your high-school friend: If you approached him as you approached this thread I am not surprised. Because in this thread you seem to complain that the Military guys don't agree with you but they don't-have-a-leg-to-stand-on because they are all stupid and uneducated. I am Military, and I have a lot of liberal friends (I went to an ultra liberal university). I have been called all kinds of offensive things by people who realize for the first time what I actually do for a living. People also assume that I am stupid or ignorant simply because I am a member of the Military. I also get told 'how it is' in Afghanistan and how horrible the 'Military Occupation' is and how many 'atrocities' we are committing...by people who have never left the Country and have never met an actual Afghan. I don't pull the "I'm Military and thus know best" card because it is ridiculous and stifles debate. However, I will pull the "I have been there" card. All to often someone will refuse to listen altogether to what I have to say after they initiate a discussion....apparently they expect to be able to hurl poorly reasoned arguments based largely on ignorance without me responding in any way. Edited to somewhat clarify my response. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 01-11-2010 at 11:50 AM..