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popo · 06-13-2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by debaser
But don't forget that all of the nice letters in the world doesn't change the fact that in 1922 there were about 84,000 jews in Palestine. By 1942 there were 484,000.

At that time, there was no Palestine, no Israel. It was just land, no countries. Jordan was cut out from the British Mandate in 1922 as a gift to the Hashemite Kingdom and Jews were forbidden from emmigrating there. It remained Palestinian.

Jews fled European anti-semitism and went to the only place they could go. Other countries were not allowing very many Jews in.

Why were they all moving there?

Because Palestine had been declared the Jewish homeland by the First Zionist Congress (1897). If I was a gentile living there I would feel a bit nervous about my future, wouldn't you?

Actually, many Jews were emmigrating to the area throughout the 1800's. There have been more Jews than Muslims in Jerusalem since the 1840's. There was no goal of moving people, just to settle land that was empty which was most of it. In the 1800's there was less than 300k people in the entire area.

The land was very much wide open. There already were Jews who had lived their throughout history and still were there. Jews were purchasing land from Arab owners to settle on. They were fleeing European persecution. If you think that there's not enough room for them there then maybe that says something about you.

Fast forward to 1947, UN181, and the partition of Palestine:

Jews make up 30% of the population, and own only 6% of the land (most being city dwellers). They are granted 55% of the land in the partition.

I might have hard feelings about that, too.

You're forgetting about Jordan which was created from the same land and was closed off to Jews. That nation is now 60% Palestinian and that percentage was higher before Arafat tried to overthrow King Hussein and he slaughtered 10,000 Palestinians in a couple months before kicking out Arafat and his PLO cronies.

That 55% figure does not include Jordan.

Fast forward to 2003:

Israel, in the one of the greatest security blunders of all times, has ghettoized Palestinians into highly concentrated population centers, where, since they have no jobs (or economy for that matter), they breed (will be a majority of the population in Israel by the year 2020), simmer with hatred, and build bombs.

Who knows, maybe if Israel represses them a bit more, they will stop hating Israel. I always find that if you beat someone enough they eventually start liking you...

I think you're mixing things up. The population that is often alluded to becoming a majority within Israel over the next few decades are the Palestinian Arabs that live within Israel and are citizens. Not the ones on the West Bank & Gaza that are in the conflict. The Palestinians on the West Bank & Gaza will never become part of Israel to become a majority.

The economy was actually doing well before this mini-war started. Investment from Europe and aid from Israel, the US and Europe was bringing the Palestinian economy up. All that crashed after the fighting started.

And I don't believe that a rosy outlook plays any rols into whether Hamas & Islamic Jihad et al bomb buses or not. In the 1996 election campaign where Netanyahu (a hawk) was going against Peres (a dove), bus bombings occured daily while Peres was ahead in all polls. As more bombings went on, Peres kept sliding and Netanyahu crept up. He ended up winning the election purely because of the bombings. What did the Palestinians not get that they would have gotten if Peres had been elected? A country.

If you look at the history, bombings actually went UP in the months after Oslo was signed. Do you know why? Because the perpetrators do not want 2 countries side by side. They want a single country with no Jews in it.

Why is it that each time Israel pulls out of an area, there's a sudden rash of bombings? When Israel clamps down and re-occupies the area, bombings stop. The bombings have absolutely nothing to do with whether the Palestinians feel that they have hope. They are done by people who do not see peace as a good solution.

06-13-2003, 07:31 AM	#35 (permalink)
popo Psycho	Originally posted by debaser But don't forget that all of the nice letters in the world doesn't change the fact that in 1922 there were about 84,000 jews in Palestine. By 1942 there were 484,000. At that time, there was no Palestine, no Israel. It was just land, no countries. Jordan was cut out from the British Mandate in 1922 as a gift to the Hashemite Kingdom and Jews were forbidden from emmigrating there. It remained Palestinian. Jews fled European anti-semitism and went to the only place they could go. Other countries were not allowing very many Jews in. Why were they all moving there? Because Palestine had been declared the Jewish homeland by the First Zionist Congress (1897). If I was a gentile living there I would feel a bit nervous about my future, wouldn't you? Actually, many Jews were emmigrating to the area throughout the 1800's. There have been more Jews than Muslims in Jerusalem since the 1840's. There was no goal of moving people, just to settle land that was empty which was most of it. In the 1800's there was less than 300k people in the entire area. The land was very much wide open. There already were Jews who had lived their throughout history and still were there. Jews were purchasing land from Arab owners to settle on. They were fleeing European persecution. If you think that there's not enough room for them there then maybe that says something about you. Fast forward to 1947, UN181, and the partition of Palestine: Jews make up 30% of the population, and own only 6% of the land (most being city dwellers). They are granted 55% of the land in the partition. I might have hard feelings about that, too. You're forgetting about Jordan which was created from the same land and was closed off to Jews. That nation is now 60% Palestinian and that percentage was higher before Arafat tried to overthrow King Hussein and he slaughtered 10,000 Palestinians in a couple months before kicking out Arafat and his PLO cronies. That 55% figure does not include Jordan. Fast forward to 2003: Israel, in the one of the greatest security blunders of all times, has ghettoized Palestinians into highly concentrated population centers, where, since they have no jobs (or economy for that matter), they breed (will be a majority of the population in Israel by the year 2020), simmer with hatred, and build bombs. Who knows, maybe if Israel represses them a bit more, they will stop hating Israel. I always find that if you beat someone enough they eventually start liking you... I think you're mixing things up. The population that is often alluded to becoming a majority within Israel over the next few decades are the Palestinian Arabs that live within Israel and are citizens. Not the ones on the West Bank & Gaza that are in the conflict. The Palestinians on the West Bank & Gaza will never become part of Israel to become a majority. The economy was actually doing well before this mini-war started. Investment from Europe and aid from Israel, the US and Europe was bringing the Palestinian economy up. All that crashed after the fighting started. And I don't believe that a rosy outlook plays any rols into whether Hamas & Islamic Jihad et al bomb buses or not. In the 1996 election campaign where Netanyahu (a hawk) was going against Peres (a dove), bus bombings occured daily while Peres was ahead in all polls. As more bombings went on, Peres kept sliding and Netanyahu crept up. He ended up winning the election purely because of the bombings. What did the Palestinians not get that they would have gotten if Peres had been elected? A country. If you look at the history, bombings actually went UP in the months after Oslo was signed. Do you know why? Because the perpetrators do not want 2 countries side by side. They want a single country with no Jews in it. Why is it that each time Israel pulls out of an area, there's a sudden rash of bombings? When Israel clamps down and re-occupies the area, bombings stop. The bombings have absolutely nothing to do with whether the Palestinians feel that they have hope. They are done by people who do not see peace as a good solution.