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Old 12-06-2009, 08:34 AM   #64 (permalink)
MSD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
1 - the facts have not changed since 1988
2 - the question was whether anyone had claimed that AIDS was man made in any seious journal. of course they have. This is not the majority view, but a signifiant number of people have argued it. It does not surprise us that the state/university/military complex maintains a defeaning silence in regards to such allegations.

_

I am not saying I can prove it to be so, but in my opinion, it is most likely that AIDS is man made.

Approach the question as any detective would

The villian has form. We know about experiments where black soliders were deliberately given diseases, where soldiers were exposed to radiation, etc.

We know that many states have experimented with biological warfare.

We know that a condition found in monkeys for all history *SUDDENLY* starts spreading like wildfire, at the same time, in unrelated locations amongst humans.

You look the evidence and you draw the conclusions which make the most sense
There is strong evidence that lentiviruses have existed for at least 14 million years, as demonstrated by the presence of endogenous lentivirus DNA in the genetic code of the gray mouse lemur. HIV-1 is closely related to Simian Immunodeficiency virus, carried by many simians in Sub-Saharan Africa, which is thought to have mutated to a strain transmissible to humans and transmitted by a bite or blood-blood contact by chimpanzee hunters. The geographic spread of HIV-2 is almost entirely contained in West Africa, where a similar immunodeficiency virus is documented in the sooty mangabey monkey, whose habitat is limited to that region.

By citing one paper from 1988 that opposes the majority consensus, you are cherry picking evidence in the same way that AGW denialists do when they harp on publications related to global cooling from the same time period, even though the theory was never widely accepted or even published on to nearly the same extent as global warming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
roachboy,

To be clear - I am stating that I believe AIDS is a man made virus

I am stating that I believe climate change is man made phenomona, that human industry is acting as a catalyst of naturalk cycles.

I am stating that I believe science created the atom bomb, the gas chamber, acid rain, a massive increase in cancer deaths

Please let me know which specific point you would like to dispute.
Science is not a singular entity and to claim it as such is disingenuous. Scientific research led to understanding of nuclear radiation, which allowed the atom bomb to be created, but also allowed for such direct applications as nuclear power (which produces no pollution other than thermal,) x-ray radiography, radiation therapy for cancer, and the ionizing smoke detector (which, as the cheapest detector design, allowed smoke detectors to be sold for a few dollars a piece and even given away to the poor, saving countless lives.)

Scientific research led to understanding of how various chemicals affect the human body, including the development of poisonous gases, but many of those gas chambers were nothing more than sealed rooms with vehicle exhaust piped in from trucks running outside. Where gas chamers were impractical, victims were lined up and shot one by one. It is hardly appropriate to blame biologists and chemists for the application of their research by a government intent on committing genocide, especially when agents of that government were content to simply shoot people in the head when convenient.

Climate change is almost certainly a man-made phenomenon (yes, I'm doing that science thing and refusing to state something with absolute certainty,) and was an inadvertent and unknown byproduct of industrialization. Now that it is known and understood, huge amounts of funding and billions of person-hours are directed to research into how to minimize our effect on our environment and reverse the damage that we have done. I remember the problem of ozone depletion, and I remember being told in elementary school that by the time I had children, it would be unsafe to go outside for more than a few minutes without sunscreen. A concerted global effort to address that problem happened, and not only has ozone depletion been all but stopped, the ozone layer is regrowing. It's the same with acid rain: at first we didn't know we were causing it, but once we realized the damage we were doing, we started to address the problem with -- brace yourself -- scientific research.

Industrialization and commerce have introduced cancer-causing agents into our environment, but a major focus in industry and regulation is how to reduce harmful contaminants. Major advancements in cancer treatment have been made by medical researchers, life expectancies of cancer patients continue to rise. You have probably also heard of Gardasil, the HPV vaccine. It is the product of medical research, and to put it very simply, it is a vaccine against cancer. You have to admit that's a pretty big accomplishment.
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