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Old 11-12-2009, 11:55 AM   #48 (permalink)
Willravel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
this is a more helpful poll based on a larger sample.

i'm not at all saying "yay creationism" btw--not at all. what i am saying is that the viewpoints are particular--if you look at this poll, the lowest levels of acceptance of the notions connected to natural evolution are amongst evangelical protestants. this isn't exactly shocking, is it?
and there are alot of these people in the united states.
but the point nonetheless remains that a majority of people accept some version or another of darwinian-style evolution.
I know you're not saying yay Creationism, and to be honest the last thing I want to do is adopt the Bush "you're either with us or against us" policy, but this particular subject is near and dear to my heart (brain). You being an enlightened cat, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
within the scientific community, however pew chose to define it, the numbers are overwhelming in the opposite direction, btw. over 80% accept evolution as an explanation.
This worries me more than the other number, to be honest. I'd hate to have someone working on a cure for cancer or a safer method of transportation to stop because they've concluded "god did it". I don't have a problem with scientists believing in god the same way I don't have a problem with oncologists smoking, but when they're so fundamentalist that they deny something as well established with verifiable, sound science as evolution, wouldn't you agree that could cause problems?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
it's curious that you use the same language as the christians who accept "creationism" to denounce it: that it is an abomination for example. that's a big sin. bad bad bad.
Well, being a bit snarky, I was using it ironically. Like if I called Creationsim the devil and science god. It's just my liberal elitism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
my main point is that so far as i am concerned i don't particularly care what people imagine about the world around them so long as the more wacky beliefs--creationism among them--don't acquire a degree of political power. people believe all kinds of stuff. so i see this as a political matter more than as a social matter--only important as a function of mobilization of a particular sector. so the solution, if you like, is to undercut that political power and let the evangelicals slide back into a richly deserved political irrelevance. but so far as the actual beliefs go, while i in principle agree with you, will, i don't really care about it as a problem. i am concerned with the political frames that enable such lunacy to take hold are, because they're part of the process that enables political power to be obtained & held....so it's like that more.
How would you propose best undercutting them politically? It seems pretty clear that they do have political power and that power is leading them to introduce this to children in public schools, which is my main gripe. It's not constitutional at all, and I figured Edwards v. Aguillard put the issue to rest, but it hasn't as the creationists have tried to hide their religion under the brown paper bag with two holes cut out of "intelligent design". I can keep it out of schools in my area because I know people, but there's not much I can do with the Texas Ed board.
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