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Originally Posted by Willravel
They're a tribal-based society, so of course there's going to be chest-beating in response to a passive threat from the Obama administration, with Brown and Sarkozy in tow. If they didn't chest-beat it would be out of the ordinary and might signal something to be more concerned about.
Ace, if you get the time, please give this a read: It's the Tribes, Stupid (not calling you stupid, it's the name of the article)
It's a basic introduction to tribalism in the modern world especially in Islamic countries. |
This is a quote from the piece:
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The tribe must have a chief. It demands a leader. With a top dog, every underdog knows his place. He feels secure. He can provide security for this family. The tribe needs a Tony Soprano. It needs a Godfather.
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I have made similar statements regarding the defiance of Sadaam and the risk we take in the ME for perceived weakness.
This is also interesting:
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In the end, unless we're ready to treat them they way we did Geronimo, the tribe is unbeatable. They're just too crazy. They're not like us. Tolerance and open-mindedness are not virtues to them; they're signs of weakness. The tribe is too rigid to bend, and it can't be negotiated with.
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I admit I am confused - I am assuming your interpretation of the piece and some of what he says is very different than mine.
Here is another:
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It took Alexander (Alexander the Great) three years, but he finally got a handle on the tribal mind. (Perhaps because so many of his own Macedonians were basically tribal.) Alexander produced peace by marrying the daughter of his most powerful enemy, the princess Roxane. The tribe understands such an act. This is respect. This is honor.
Alexander made the tribesmen his equals. He acknowledged their warrior honor. When he and his army marched out to their next conquest, Alexander took the bravest of his former enemies with him as his Companions. They rode at his side in stations of honor; they dined at his shoulder in the royal pavilion. (Of course he also beat the living hell out of the Afghans for three years prior, and when he took off he left a fifth of his army to garrison the place.)
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Our goals are not to conquer or to make war, our goals are to maintain peace and order. An "intellectual" approach to the Iran question, assuming there is a "tribal" mentality as described by Pressfield in the piece cited, is folly in my opinion. Obama needs to respond in a quick, decisive and firm manner before this gets further out of control.
---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux
Right...if the Ayatollah said it, it must be true.
OR....as will noted, it is public posturing in light of the fact that, for the first time in eight years, they are being forced to the table and facing sanctions by their allies as well as their adversaries because of the recently enhanced diplomatic efforts.
Face-saving at its best....which is required of all good Ayatollahs "we could have and would have made our ""enemies blind"..but after negotiations (and the first serious threat of sanctions), we wont" A direct and literal threat? Relax and let diplomacy take its course for once. Something new and different! |
All I suggest is that if Iran wants to help tone down the hostility, they can make a proactive step. Given the statement, past statements, and the defiance, I perceive these things as provocative.
I hope Obama's approach works. I would prefer not to have this situation escalate. Obama has been reaching out to the world and has denounced Bush's approach and some past actions by the US. At some point when should we expect a positive response? An honest response?
I am not making a political statement or a judgment statement on Obama, I accept him as our commander-in-chief, and I accept that American's want a different approach compare to Bush on these matters. I am simply sharing my view, nothing more, nothing less - in the big picture my view has no importance. So there is not much need for anyone to try to make me change it - at this point my view is locked on this until I see something positive from Iran.