levite

OK, so the real answer is that it depends on who you ask. If you ask most Orthodox authorities, they will say sex before marriage is absolutely prohibited to women, and men should refrain from it, but we all understand that sometimes men have uncontrollable urges, so they still shouldn't have sex before marriage, but it's not such a huge sin if they don't. But it's still shameful.

What I will tell you, not being Orthodox, is that modern Judaism is very pro-monogamy, and very pro-marriage. It is clear to all Jews, I think, that the beau ideal of Jewish sexuality is sex between husband and wife. That said, it is less than clear that other kinds of sex are prohibited. It needs to be understood that, in the Torah, and in the Rabbis' explanation of the laws of marriage in the Talmud, they were all working in societies wherein female virginity was highly prized, and not only aesthetically, but given that marriages involved the payment of bride-prices and the giving of dowries, considerable financial dealing was dependent upon women being virgins, as virgins commanded higher bride prices and came with larger dowries than non-virgins. Thus, marriage, which traditionally was based in the laws of acquisition (the man acquiring the woman and her dowry, having purchased her with the bride price and the agreement to pay her ketubah, or gift of divorce-- should he ever divorce her, he would agree to pay her X amount of money as recompense, since remarriage was difficult she being now 'damaged goods'), involved a contract, a payment, and sexual intercourse to seal the deal. That it involved contracts demanded that transactions be free of fraud, putting great pressure on women to keep their hymens intact. That it involved sexual intercourse meant that legally, one could make an argument that sexual intercourse was universally intended to effect marriage, which was a positive in their society, because it meant that players couldn't fuck 'em and leave 'em, they had to make good on the financial support of this poor girl whose best opportunities they had just ruined.

Of course, today, things work differently, and it is a problem in Judaism that the halakhah (Jewish law) has not adequately kept pace with the times in the matter of marriage. So there are various solutions being employed to try to resolve the issues surrounding acquisition, and some people are introducing the concept that not all male intercourse is intended to effect marriage. Meaning that men are permitted casual sex before marriage. Among the Orthodox community, female virginity is still valued, but the truth is that it need not be. By the rules of the tradition, she could just as well not be a virgin, and simply list a lower bride-price on her marriage deed. But Orthodoxy still clings very much to the aesthetic of virginity, which has resulted, embarrassingly enough for Orthodoxy, in a burgeoning trend among Orthodox youths in America of developing the skills of oral sex, and of anal sex.

Now, I will tell you that I think that there is adequate halakhic precedent to say that virginity need only be an issue if we make it one, and while it may be reasonable to assume that all sex is intended to effect marriage in a context where marriages are made very young, and all Jews live under Rabbinic law only, in a situation where people are marrying later and later, and Jews mostly are bound by the laws of the lands in which they live, vis-a-vis their daily legal framework, there should be nothing to prevent Jews from having sex before marriage. Although in the interests of supporting a healthy attitude about sex to bring into one's future marriage, I would advise young Jews not to be unduly promiscuous, as IMO, the more casual sex one has, the more one is apt to lost sight of the value of sex as a means of two people communing with one another, sharing deep feelings, and mutual care and affection. In other words, I'm not telling anyone to wait until marriage, just try not to fuck anything that comes by.

The universal traditional view is that if a Jew and a non-Jew wish to marry, the non-Jew must convert to Judaism. This is especially key when a Jewish man wishes to wed a non-Jewish woman, because Judaism is traditionally matrilineal (identity is passed through the mother's line), and therefore, one is Jewish if one's mother is Jewish. There are other reasons also, but that's the chief and primary reason. Reform Judaism has attempted, in the past thirty years, to get around this view by introducing a doctrine of patrilineal descent, meaning that so long as one parent is Jewish, the child is Jewish. This has backfired miserably, since both the Conservative and the Orthodox communities have violently disagreed, and a crisis is now ensuing of Reform youths who have been told they are Jewish wishing to wed Conservative or Modern Orthodox youths who are unable to marry them without them converting. But basically, if you're Orthodox, Conservative, or are among a minority of the Reform movement, the answer is that a Jew and a non-Jew cannot be married. A plurality of the Reform movement (and most of the tiny leftist fringe movements) hold that a Jew and a non-Jew can be married, but they have been ostracized over this by the traditional movements.

Regarding dating, again, it varies. Technically, nothing forbids a Jew from dating a non-Jew. Many do so. We often advise our youth to avoid doing so after a certain age, since it may be painful if marriage arises as a possibility, but their non-Jewish partner refuses to convert.

I myself, I will say, dated mostly non-Jewish girls during my life. And twice, I wanted to marry someone non-Jewish, and ended up having to end the relationship because she was not interested in conversion. It was extremely painful, but absolutely necessary.

My fiancee is, as I mentioned, Jewish...thank God.

---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

I think it depends on what you want from your Jewish identity. If you're just looking for an understanding of your heritage and background, sure. Learn some Yiddish or Ladino or Hebrew, read up on Jewish history, enjoy the cultural trappings of Judaism. We have great jokes and we invented bagels. What's not to love?

If you want to connect to the deepest meanings of what it is to be a Jew, then, personally, I don't think so.

There are many who would disagree with me. If you read the writings of Mordecai Kaplan, founder of the Reconstructionist movement, or some other adherents of that movement, they would tell you very differently. But I very much believe otherwise.

In my opinion, Judaism is an ethnicity, a culture, and a religion, all inextricably intertwined. Separating the elements from one another would be like trying to disentangle DNA: if you get it completely unravelled, it no longer is what it was. The greatest achievements of our people have had their covenant with God at the heart. I don't know how to preserve that greatness while excising the covenant.

As for your theology, Judaism has room for many kinds of theology. As I mentioned above, sex before marriage is by no means a dealbreaker. I do think that a Jew should refrain from crimes of theft or violence, although we all make mistakes. I myself, when in college, did some shoplifting, which I regret now, and would not do again, but I did do it, and it is done. Was Jesus a prophet? Who knows. Maybe. I won't say for certain that he was or he wasn't. All I know for sure is that the Rabbis who founded the tradition of Judaism of which we are currently the inheritors did not accept Jesus' prophecy as authentic. Does that mean it was false? Maybe, maybe not. But it does mean that, according to our tradition, it is not relevant or applicable to the Jewish people.

I want to make clear, although this is my honest answer, I say it without judgment or condemnation. I believe, personally, that Jews should embrace their tradition. I would not seek to force anyone. I believe that Jews who do not embrace the fullness of their tradition are, in some ways, disconnected from it. But that in no way means I think such people are bad, or immoral. You can be a good person without being an observant Jew. I just think that it's unfortunate that there are beautiful and deeply spiritual parts of one's heritage that such Jews choose not to experience in their lives. But the door is always open....

I'm sorry I can't give you a more pleasant answer. But it is honest, and offered with respect.

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

If I had the answer to that....

The real answer though, is that generally, wars fought over religion are not actually being fought over religion. Usually they're fought over land, sometimes over money, and occasionally as a means of diverting attention away from problems at home that the government doesn't want to solve (often because the government is the problem at home).

I'm not saying this is always true, just mostly.

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------

D, loquitur is quite right. Nearly all Jewish professional athletes are relatively non-observant. We're lucky if they decide not to play on the High Holidays. Shabbat? Good luck, buddy. Never gonna happen.

Incidentally, it was a version of that problem that caused me to give up being a working actor/director-- everybody wants a Friday night show or Saturday matinee....

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)