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Originally Posted by Willravel
People are showing up to the town hall meetings with words and phrases like "death panels", "abortion", "communism", "fascism", "nazism", etc. instead of actual relevant topics. These people are conservative, not liberal. They are getting their information from people like Palin, Hannity, Beck, ORly, and Rush, but they're not even bothering to check if the information is correct before going to these meetings to "protest" (it's not actually protesting, it's actually an attempt to end the debate). What these people are doing has nothing at all to do with free speech and everything to do with trying to end a debate by trolling. It's censorship. I'll say that again, IT'S CENSORSHIP. It's the exact opposite of free speech.
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People play to cameras. People who know they have almost no opportunity to have their voice heard, will go to the extreme to illustrate their point. Did you ever watch the show The Price is Right - I remember it because my grandmother watched it every day when I was a child. In order to get picked the contestants did all kinds of crazy things, shouted dressed up, had sign, just to get picked. They acted a fool on the show, however in real life i bet they were pretty "normal". Is it a surprise to you that people would act a fool to get on TV, to get noticed, to make a point? Again, if I were going to hold a TH meeting I would not be surprised by this stuff. Even when I was involved in local city political meetings we would have people do exactly what is happening now. When we knew we had a hot topic we planned for it. No surprises. And we got through it, we did what needed to be done. we did not cry about it or complain.
---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
ace, I would start with the fact that your underlying premise is wrong.
Presidents dont offer specific legislative proposals...that is the role of Congress.
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On big issues they do, or a least clearly define what they want. It can be as simple as Kennedy saying we are going to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. Or, something as controversial as Bush presenting his case for the use of military force for the invasion of Iraq
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Presidents offer frameworks and goals/objectives and I think Obama has been clear on his broad goals for health care reform....then attempts to shape the details through the bully pulpit, consultations with lawmakers and other means.
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We simply disagree. Obama has not been clear in my view.
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Clinton's greatest failing with his early health care reform proposal was he ignored this fact and he had little Congressional support from the start because he attempted to do it all himself and shove his plan down the throat of Congress.
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Again I disagree. I think Clinton's problem and Obama's problem is they present there ideas on false premises. Private health care insurance is not the problem. Private health care companies operate under the regulatory environment created by government. They do what the government allows them to do, it is a highly regulated industry.