View Single Post
Old 08-22-2009, 10:44 AM   #52 (permalink)
roachboy
 
roachboy's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
a right is what the legal system in place calls rights.
each assignment of that status is a technical (in the sense of writing it into law) and political question.
trying to make some distinction on principle between "rights that cost me money" and "rights that don't cost me money" says nothing about rights--only something about your aesthetic preferences.
in other words, it says nothing about anything beyond what you like and what you dont. so it works on the same register as statements concerning your preferences or chunky as over against smooth peanut butter.

rights pertain to a legal subject, a construction of persons that is basically the sum of legal statements which give attributes to a social individual.
so one line of argument that could happen here concerns the universal declaration of human rights that smeth brought up above. once the united states signed that document, effectively it adopted that construction of legal subjects as binding. thanks largely to the john birch society wing of the contemporary right, there's a paranoia about the un abroad in the land (black helicopters anyone?)...this coupled with years of routine ignoring of such conventions, mostly in the name of conservative-style nation-states uber alles thinking, have resulted in the right not having quite caught up with reality. but it seems to me that the fact that the us signed that declaration means that it accepted this notion of human rights and accepted the construction of a legal subject that follows from it. so i don't see how universal health care is not already obligatory, and even less any possible basis from the right for opposing it.

even on pragmatic grounds i don't see it. this is a capitalist system. one of the primary functions of such a system is the reproduction of the labor pool. keeping more people healthy--and socializing the costs of doing it--would seem to me to make sense for bidness. hell, even insurance companies have such an interest.
i see no arguments against universal health care being good for bidness, so it makes no sense to me that the same folk who carry water for the existing corporate sector in political terms to oppose it.

it seems that the main arguments come from some curious position rooted in a fantasy 18th century world of yeomen farmers and no indoor plumbing and no electricity.
the dunedan above outlined a position that's internally consistent, but i'm baffled as to why it is compelling given that we're in the modern capitalist world, like it or not. the argument is which version of that system is more desirable, what ends would make it more desirable. so which variant of the existing system do we collectively want. stuff about individual rights drawn on this 18th century yeoman farmer no cars no internet business are beside the point.

that said, i can see why conservatives would not want to concede this point, though--once you do, you concede the whole argument against universal access to basic health care.


========

o and vigiliante: fact is that neither you nor anyone else has the faintest idea what was running through the minds of the framers of the constitution. the whole original intent thing is goofy. in this context, it actively obstructs a coherent discussion.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite
roachboy is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360