Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_
Maybe I missed something - there always seemed to me to be a clear link that makes the permission to bear arms conditional on the ability to form a militia.
You commented that the militia should exist. I agree. If this is the case, maybe you should say "If you have joined a milita organisation for civil defense, you can bear arms". That would prevent anyone saying "I need it for home defense" or "I want to go hunting". The point should be (to me) if you're not in a milita, the right to bear arms doesn't apply to you.
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I happen to agree with your interpretation of the intent of the 2nd. The supreme court does not. They ruled that we can have guns. They didn't say we can have guns as long as we sign up for a militia. So, by judicial review, we are free and clear to have guns, and my original point stands.
Regarding your other comments to my post, you pretty much said what I am saying. Yes, I suppose having a gun in church if you believe that Jesus told you never to fight is hypocritical. But christianity as a whole is hypocritical as hell. You are correct when you say that Jesus never said anything about persecuting homosexuals, but he did say, as I mentioned, to love thy neighbor and to avoid passing judgment on people. A sizable percentage of American christians are vehemently anti-gay, and therefore are hypocritical. And if we want to get technical, you are judging this church and its congregation over the gun issue, and therefore so are you.
The point is that assuming Jesus existed, it is highly unlikely that he expected his words to be followed to the exact letter. It is further unlikely that what is written in the bible is exactly what Jesus actually said. If you synthesize Jesus's teachings down to their core, they work out to something along the lines of "Don't be an asshole, and treat people nicely to the extent possible." That's a better way to approach his teachings, I think, than to take the verbage literally and as-rote. After all "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" could be twisted to justify rape. "I'd sure like her to have sex with me so. . ."
All this boils down to the point that as long as these churchgoers are living their lives to the moral standard they believe their church requires of them, they are not hypocrites. Obviously the church does not include as part of that moral standard "don't carry any guns." We don't know how literally that church interprets the new testament, and so we can't really pass. . judgment. . on them on the hypocrisy question.