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I'll grant that point with no caveats, roachboy, save that the point has little to do with the OP, which is, after all, about them, not us.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
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