Sorry all - been away from the PC for a couple of days.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Meh. Christianity is as violent as any other group of people. From the Crusades to the Inquisition to W's "God told me to do it" war with Iraq, Jesus's religion has been used as an excuse to kill people since not long after people killed him.
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People who self identify as Christians, whilst not following the teachings of Jesus are at best misguided, and at worst hypocrites. The rules are clear (and frankly rather odd - I'm not even sure that they can all BE followed) and not up for negotiation - it's not supposed to e easy to follow them, it's supposed to be a test of faith.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Jesus also told us not to judge people, and to love our neighbor, yet it is the Christians who are so eagerly persecuting gays. If you're saying that guns in church means the church and its congregation is hypocritical, you might be right. . .But it's not like Christians haven't been hypocritical long before the gun-in-church issue came up.
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As far as I'm aware, Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality - there's things in the old testament that can be interpreted as condemning it, but then there's equally damning strictures against prawns, bacon, and haircuts, and congress hasn't ruled on barbers shops or surf & turf.
I was taught that we can now ignore the rules of the Jews, because Jesus died for our sins. Therefore, we can eat bacon, wear our hair how we like, have a prawn cocktail, and be as gay as we want.
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Originally Posted by shakran
For my part, I think it's pretty silly that we supposedly have a right to bear arms, yet can't actually take the gun anywhere practical. Stores, churches, government buildings, all ban guns. What's the point of having one for personal protection if you have to rely on violence only being done to you in the city park? If a criminal goes after you inside or on a sidewalk (where you won't be carrying your gun because you'll have nowhere to store it when you get to whatever building you're going to that doesn't allow guns), then you're just as screwed as if you didn't go to all the time and trouble to legally acquire a gun in the first place.
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The right to bear arms is clearly stated to be in order to raise a millitia to prevent the tyrany of government. That is unlikely to happen to you suddenly in a carpark.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Additionally, you seem to be saying it's ok for people to carry guns as long as they don't carry them into church, because the church teaches them to turn the other cheek. In effect you're saying we only have to follow church teachings while we are actually in the church, which means it's totally fine for me to cheat on my wife as long as I do it at a seedy motel and not in the rectory.
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Not at all - I'm saying that if you are a Christian you should not carry guns in church OR elsewhere. The point is that the people with guns outside Church may well not think of themselves as Christians, but those IN Church probably do. I think that it should be the Pastor's duty to educate the congregation in what the rules actually are, not to tell them that the rules are flexible to fit their desire to call themselves Christians whilst hanging onto their weapons.
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Originally Posted by shakran
And finally, I really don't think "turn the other cheek" is a suicide pact. I have trouble believing that Jesus would want us to just let a crazed gunman mow us down.
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Jesus was in favour of passive resistance - he said turn the other cheek, he said if under duress do DOUBLE what you are forced. I'm not saying it's something I can do, but it worked for Ghandi.
Final question: in the beatitudes who did Jesus say would inherit the Earth?
Was it the armed who defend themselves, or was it someone else?