Whole bunch of stuff to reply to.
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Originally Posted by inBOIL
I think Latenter's point (and I hope to be corrected if I've misinterpreted) is that the determination of whether or not the fetus counts as a human life trumps all (or most) other factors. If it is a life, than the non-fatal health issues that the woman faces are not sufficiently important to allow abortion, and if it isn't a life, then abortion is not ethically different from having a mole removed. The focus on developmental stage is an effort to determine whether or not a fetus is a life.
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Thank you, inBoil. This is my point exactly. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my argument, and you worded it better than I did.
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Originally Posted by tisonlyi
I think pretty much everyone agrees that late term abortions should be strictly regulated, and they are... always have been everywhere except the backstreet, iirc.
I think maybe you should educate yourself about the outcomes for premature births between 16 and 26 weeks.
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Not everyone agrees on that. They're still legal in 13 states, and what happens at that point that makes the baby more human than 2 weeks before? I'm not arguing that the baby could survive then, although from week 21 on it is possible. It's besides the point. If late term abortions are distasteful, why are earlier abortions not?
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Originally Posted by Halanna
The mad scientists in the 1940's and 50's talked about heart transplants, but it became reality in 1967. I don't think a brain transplant will occur that quickly, but it will happen. Not a question of if, a question of when.
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And then we'll have immortality.
Or, at least, a whole bunch of 250 year olds with Alzheimers. I just meant that the brain is what makes you you. You can get a new heart, or prosthetic arm, but a new brain isn't you anymore (at least until we get way out there in scifi)
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Originally Posted by Halanna
At it's most base, it's entirely true that a baby is not it's own entity until the cord is cut because the baby relies on the host body for survival, then it's sink or swim.
On this track of thinking, it's saying the rights of the reproducing organic matter trump the rights of the already independent individual host who is of advanced age compared to the organic matter and the host is already a tooth on the cog of the vast wheels that constitute society.
If the host can not decide on the destiny of it's own existence and it's ability to reproduce, than who shall we leave this monstrously massive decision to? Government? Religion? Society?
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Originally Posted by Halanna
You are an entity when you are independent. As long as you are dependent on the host, you are not an entity.
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How many newborn babies do you know of that could survive if you left them lying on the floor and ignored them? Even most 5 year olds wouldn't survive if you didn't keep providing food to eat. Children are dependent, and though not physically attached anymore are not able to survive on their own.
The "host" still has rights. Those rights do not trump the rights of other adults, and I believe should not trump the rights of the baby. You have plenty of opportunity to exercise reproductive rights. Abstinence (not popular) and birth control are available. So is permanent sterilization. No one is forcing you to get pregnant (unless you're blaming God. Good luck then.) It does happen by accident, but at that point the new life has to be considered. Car crashes happen by accident too, but you have to deal with the results. You can't shoot the other driver to prevent paying claims if you're at fault.
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Originally Posted by Jozrael
Call us irresponsible, but we've made the choice to not put off sex for X number of years. Since I was originally raised pretty fundamentalist Christian, this was a pretty hard choice for me to make since I consider abortion murder.
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It's this cognitive dissonance I don't understand. Not against you personally, but many pro-choice people seem to be in the same position. You specifically consider it murder, but you're still ok with it? It might make things easier in your life, but in my opinion you can't just pretend what you're doing doesn't impact anyone but yourself.
It seems like many people try to cling to their rights, and pretend there are no other issues to discuss because the implications are ugly.