View Single Post
Old 06-03-2009, 08:00 PM   #55 (permalink)
Hektore
Junkie
 
Hektore's Avatar
 
Location: Greater Harrisburg Area
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
latenter: i read the thread and was aware of your post when i wrote what i did. your position operates under the assumption that there is a tipping point in fetal development past which the problem switches from one of the choice of the mother to some "right to life" on the part of the developing child. i don't think there is any such point, mostly because i reject the premise your argument operates from--that there is such a point that can be determined. but that's my view, and it isn't really germaine in the context of the paragraph you quoted. the point there had to do with the question of legality and by extension safety of the procedure.
//note: not necessarily directed at you roachboy; more that the bit I've quoted got my gears turning and somewhat provides a context for what I've written and it helps me to be able to express myself more clearly(to me at least) to write as though I'm directing it at you (not you specifically but someone, you just happen to be the person I quoted).

To pick at your brain some - The 'right to life' appears somewhere. We lock up mothers for say...drowning their toddlers in a lake - as retribution for that violation of the 'right to life'. I suppose the 'right' doesn't have to appear, it could have been there from the get go, the whole 'every sperm is sacred' bit. I don't really think that anyone actually thinks that (except for the whole anti-contraception crowd which is generally labeled as loony) and certainly we don't all believe that or we wouldn't have ever allowed abortion in the first place. So then if it isn't in there the whole time, then it is in there at some point later, it has to go in sometime between there? Whether we can label it or not?

That's what the debate really centers around where that mucky unequivocal 'right to life' pops up. Just because we can't agree or a point where that happens (whether you choose to call that point 100% human or 60% human and then say 60% human sufficient cause) or on criteria on to judge what constitutes 'human life' doesn't mean it isn't there. I mean, if things exist somehow now, that is different than before there had to be a transition right? How can you reject the existence of the transition just because you can't identify where/when/how it was.

Although...If you think the position is arbitrary - that it is entirely relative to the individual, then nobody can really tell anyone else when life begins it only makes sense in an individual context. It appears the problem of 'when life begins' strangely seems to annihilate itself. I mean, if everyone is equally right due to the arbitrary nature of the line, then 'right' doesn't really mean anything at all. The practical upshot is it allows us to ignore the pesky right to life question and move on to other considerations: personal liberty, or social duty, women's rights, etc.

This view results in a degenerative morality though - any time we disagree about morality and don't have a clear point of reference (which is never) - anything goes. The only time morality becomes enforceable on say a group level is when we all agree, or at least enough of us to enforce it. This makes me mentally uncomfortable, the idea of there not being a standard morality which we can reference (however it is I seem to think we reference it), although if I'm honest with myself I think it makes me uncomfortable because it resembles reality so well - I must ponder this more.
__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Last edited by Hektore; 06-03-2009 at 08:04 PM..
Hektore is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360