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I've stayed out of this conversation, mostly because I think it's a gigantic joke. Anyone that thinks that any sort of valid information can come from anything that's borderline torture (and defining that border is the basis for this discussion) is a fool. That includes our former Vice President. I arrive at that conclusion based on the experience of the Soviets, who, in the 1920's and 1930's, created vast conspiracies from the ether based on torture, generally without resorting to violence. Waterboarding was used in rare circumstances but required too much work. The US government employees and their contractors engaged in the sleep deprivation, starvation and confinement techniques perfected by the Stalinists.
The last 8 years or so has been one of the greatest hypocrisies in modern history since torture was something we routinely condemned less than 20 years ago and was completely unthinkable here 10 years ago. But now that we're doing it, it's somehow ok. If an American thinks torture is somehow appropriate EVER, then you need to get the hell out. We don't want your kind here.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
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