Alright, let's do this again, then. Your main point:
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Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
I find that acceptable as part of the range that humans can and will become given conditions and circumstances. Murder and torture happened before I was on the planet, and will continue to happen when I'm no longer walking the planet.
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All you were saying here is that "torture happens and will continue to happen", but that didn't extend to "fine", which is where this clusterfuck started. You continued on later:
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Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
I will not allow someone to guilt me or make me feel bad because of someone else's actions. I'm not responsible for their actions, thus I am not responsible for the guilt and other feelings a third party is trying to foist upon me. The path your logic and will's is to try and express a manner in which I should feel bad for someone else's actions. I say, "No thank you. I'm fine with the way that it is." Traveling around the world to hear someone say, “That George Bush...” You know, I'm not responsible for his actions. I wasn't then and am still not.
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The gist here is that you don't take direct responsibility for torture. Okay, that makes sense, you were probably in New York the whole time this has been happening, several thousand miles away. You, Cynthetiq, didn't torture anyone. BUT, and this is what I said back on that first page (or second or third page if you have 40 posts per page), you're not just an island. We're not in an anarchistic social or governmental construct at all. You, Cynthetiq, are a part of a civilization. You are a citizen, you vote for representatives and measures, you pay taxes, and you contribute in your own way. Because you are a member of our democratic republic, you are a part of a whole. Or do you not vote? Do you not pay taxes? Do you not contribute to the country and also enjoy the fruits of our collective efforts? Of course you do. And just as we stand and succeed together, we also must police ourselves. This is not even at the level of ethics or morality yet, simply a matter of functionality. In order to function as a society, as a country, we must have a set of rules and principles by which we all agree to live. Torture is against our laws and principles, therefore it must be prosecuted under the law. Those who do not seek to prosecute do themselves an indirect but very much real disservice. You have likely personally paid in some way for our collective inability to stop the war in Iraq or Afghanistan and yes, even torture. Torture means, according to experts I'm glad to cite, the resistance against us in Iraq and Afghanistan grows. The consequence of remaining in those places should be obvious, but let me spell this out for you:
• we have less military at home to do their jobs. During Katrina there was a serious shortage of National Guard personnel. What happens if there is a natural or man-made disaster in New York?
• we have a less stable source of our most important natural resource, oil
• we are seeing family and friends victimized by injuries and death (perhaps you're lucky enough that no one you know has been victimized yet, but the longer this goes on the more likely you are personally to experience serious injury or death of a friend or family member)
•omgyou have to put up with people like me. Don't pretend I don't irritate you.
As a member of a society where self-policing is necessary for functionality, you have a very small share of a very large responsibility. If you don't buy that, you don't buy a serious part of your role as a member of our society.
You are a part of the whole people that torture. You have, along with others, the collective means to correct torture. You are, indirectly, negatively effected by torture.