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Old 05-18-2009, 12:12 PM   #206 (permalink)
Willravel
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq View Post
Ferdinand Marcos did what he did under the auspices of saving democracy. Uncles who were statesmen had their senate seats revoked. The family newspaper editor was arrested and the press shut down. It was all just Martial Law. He wasn't a dictator. He was elected. Many times, ever time.
Democratically elected officials can not only make mistakes, but be bad leaders. Marcos demonstrates nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq View Post
You can decide for yourself what the words may be so that it's palatable to yourself, but it's actions that determine what and who you are. We may be intending it to not be war, but it is. Call it whatever you like to call it, soldiers come home dead, traumatized, tortured, etc.
You're acting like our treatment of prisoners has something to do with those dead, traumatized or tortured soldiers when you know that's not true. Torture started before the invasion of Iraq, the time line is completely clear. It seems that we started in 2002, perhaps even 2001. We didn't invade Iraq until 2003. Even Pelosi was informed in 2002.

We tortured to establish a lie, that Iraq was connected to 9/11. You say you're "fine" with torture in the context of war, but are you fine with torture to intentionally extract unconfirmed supposition or outright falsehood? Are you really fine with torture being used to form the basis of the great lie that leads us to war with someone that wasn't going to attack us? How far into this corner are you really willing to paint yourself?
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