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Slims · 05-06-2009, 07:54 PM

It's late so I am not going to try to parse your post into separate quotes.

I do not believe in an equal society, I believe in a fair society. I use the term 'equal' loosely and that is what I mean. Every person should have a fair chance to distinguish themselves and succeed. If the government provides some basic opportunities and they fail to take advantage of what opportunities are available to them (despite any personal difficulties) then I feel no obligation to continue assisting them.

No, I don't want to call a good, sustainable social program reparations...it is what a country with no history of slavery or discrimination should be doing and it has nothing to do with past wrongs, but on the current situation. We are not repaying anybody, we are investing in a stable society.

If a community wants an increased police presence (my statement was opinion not necessarily fact) they should get it, provided they have a higher than average crime rate to justify it (I suspect they probably do).

That is the definition of culture, and dudes are not making nearly that much money. I already agreed that we should try to fix the schools and have increased police presence, but you can't make a kid not join a gang, or sell drugs...his parents and neighborhood have to condemn that behavior and until they do that lifestyle will continue to persist. You are right that it is a vicious self-perpetuating cycle, but it requires at least the passive participation of the people in the neighborhood. If people called the police on drug dealers, reported murders, told the police who the gangs were, and controlled their children it would be far easier to prevent that behavior. If the drug-dealing lifestyle were as lucrative as you suggest, the dealers would not be living in poverty as the vast majority are.

I recently started seeing GD and SUR gang signs pop up on opposite sides of my neighborhood. I have called the police and spoken with them a couple times about the new gang activity, they have increased patrols in the area and spoken with local homeowners who had graffitti on their property to have it removed. I have removed some of those tags off of public property and I will not tolerate gang activity in my neighborhood. Ultimately I feel you only deserve what you are willing to defend, and I want my neighborhood to remain gang free (or as close as I can manage). If the people living in crime ridden neighborhoods took responsibility for the state of their own neighborhood there wouldn't be any problem with violence or gang or drug activity

2'nd Edit: And I have seen plenty of families in Afghanistan making far less than the poorest person in America still managing to raise respectful, hard working children who are respectful of both the home and the community. That isn't a money issue, it is a cultural issue.

05-06-2009, 07:54 PM	#57 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	It's late so I am not going to try to parse your post into separate quotes. I do not believe in an equal society, I believe in a fair society. I use the term 'equal' loosely and that is what I mean. Every person should have a fair chance to distinguish themselves and succeed. If the government provides some basic opportunities and they fail to take advantage of what opportunities are available to them (despite any personal difficulties) then I feel no obligation to continue assisting them. No, I don't want to call a good, sustainable social program reparations...it is what a country with no history of slavery or discrimination should be doing and it has nothing to do with past wrongs, but on the current situation. We are not repaying anybody, we are investing in a stable society. If a community wants an increased police presence (my statement was opinion not necessarily fact) they should get it, provided they have a higher than average crime rate to justify it (I suspect they probably do). That is the definition of culture, and dudes are not making nearly that much money. I already agreed that we should try to fix the schools and have increased police presence, but you can't make a kid not join a gang, or sell drugs...his parents and neighborhood have to condemn that behavior and until they do that lifestyle will continue to persist. You are right that it is a vicious self-perpetuating cycle, but it requires at least the passive participation of the people in the neighborhood. If people called the police on drug dealers, reported murders, told the police who the gangs were, and controlled their children it would be far easier to prevent that behavior. If the drug-dealing lifestyle were as lucrative as you suggest, the dealers would not be living in poverty as the vast majority are. I recently started seeing GD and SUR gang signs pop up on opposite sides of my neighborhood. I have called the police and spoken with them a couple times about the new gang activity, they have increased patrols in the area and spoken with local homeowners who had graffitti on their property to have it removed. I have removed some of those tags off of public property and I will not tolerate gang activity in my neighborhood. Ultimately I feel you only deserve what you are willing to defend, and I want my neighborhood to remain gang free (or as close as I can manage). If the people living in crime ridden neighborhoods took responsibility for the state of their own neighborhood there wouldn't be any problem with violence or gang or drug activity 2'nd Edit: And I have seen plenty of families in Afghanistan making far less than the poorest person in America still managing to raise respectful, hard working children who are respectful of both the home and the community. That isn't a money issue, it is a cultural issue. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 05-06-2009 at 08:18 PM..