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Originally Posted by pan6467
See, with that thinking though comes telling people how to spend their money and the end of freedom. I can't nor will never think that way. To tell someone working 40 hours a week making $10 how they spend their money or to ridicule them because they want to enjoy a little is not my cup of tea.
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I'm not telling them how to spend their money, just how not to spend it. And there's no rule anywhere that says teaching fiscal responsibility is the end of freedom. In fact, I'd say education and the application of good education is key to freedom.
Anyway, it's not difficult to see when someone is spending his or her money in a way that's irresponsible. If someone is spending money on luxury items but can't afford enough food for his or her family, that should be lauded? Of course not. Worse still is the man making $30k a year that signed a mortgage for a home that costs $600k.
We're all interconnected, Pan. I spend very responsibly, I'm out of debt and have a respectable nest-egg in case something goes wrong. I make small investments that generally are slightly profitable, but I never take big risks. I am fiscally responsible. And yet the money in my savings has decreased in worth because the US$ has dropped in worth. My home is worth maybe 71% of what it was 3 years ago. Why? Not by my doing. No, it was by the irresponsible behaviors and beliefs of others that I've lost somewhere in the neighborhood of $350,000 worth of theoretical home value and monetary value. Because these things have a direct effect on me, they are mine to judge and I judge them without guilt. They don't have the freedom to damage my financial security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Some people work the system, some may have inherited a little and believe it or not, just because you are poor doesn't mean you have to wear shoes with duct tape.... in fact if you do, good luck getting a job. He may have gotten those shoes through a charity/Goodwill or Salvation Army sell some nice clothes, shoes and so on cheap... I know when I was making that money back then, I shopped there and even now I buy stuff there at times. Found a nice leather St John's Bay coat that was like brand new for $15, went to JCPenney's and saw the same coat for almost $300. What's a decent watch to you? It may have looked nice but so do many watches at Wal*Mart and thrift stores... did you get a close enough look at the name?
My point is, it is complete and utter bullshit to assume that he spent big bucks on what he had, there are many ways he could have gotten those articles. Doesn't mean his family is still not in need.
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Okay, bad example. I'll give you a good example: sub-prime people.
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Originally Posted by pan6467
No, not socialist. I think a free market with restraints/regulations and private ownership is the only economic system that allows true personal freedom. Once you allow government to own anything, freedom, IMHO, goes out the door because the government wants to maximize the workers earning potential, plus it allows government too much control over the people.
So, no..... I cannot say I am a Socialist. I just believe in the social responsibilities that come with wealth. I believe the only way to attain true wealth physically, spiritually and mentally is to take a fair share of your investment in a company and spread the rest out equally in regards to the workers.
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I was half-kidding. It's not alright with me either that incomes are so extreme. When I think of the billions of dollars that upper management or hedge fund managers made last year when there are so many minimum wage backs they built their fortunes on, it makes me sad. Still, liberals have been called socialist (or worse) for years for merely suggesting that income should be a little more fair.
Once you allow the market to own anything, freedom, IMHO, goes out the door because the market wants to maximize the workers efficiency (more work for less pay), plus it allows the market too much control over the people. This is why you need a small measure of regulation, just to make sure that people aren't getting ripped off by millionaire CEOs.