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Originally Posted by roachboy
you know, this is a bit awkward because it's better that there be some recognition of the obvious fact of the american class structure than the opposite.....
but geez pan you act like you just discovered that this is that case and just worked out that it matters in shaping how things have played out.
i can't for the life of me figure out what you thought was going on before you woke up.
welcome to reality.
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If you look back, my stance on this has never changed. I have always been saying the same thing when it comes to class structure. So, forgive me but I don't understand this whole "just discovered" bs.
---------- Post added at 02:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------
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Originally Posted by Willravel
I wasn't in debt when I was making $10 an hour and living on my own.
I've lived on $10 an hour as recently as 2002. I'm not saying it's easy, but if it's not impossible to live on $10 an hour in San Jose back when the housing bubble was still peaking, it's not impossible anywhere. It simply takes an iota of fiscal discipline. Unfortunately, fiscal discipline is about as common in America as... say... socialism. How many people do you know that are out of debt? Now look at all the people in debt. Do you see any decisions that might make, maybe some small sacrifices, in order to be debt-free? I do.
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See, with that thinking though comes telling people how to spend their money and the end of freedom. I can't nor will never think that way. To tell someone working 40 hours a week making $10 how they spend their money or to ridicule them because they want to enjoy a little is not my cup of tea.
If you truly did that, then my hats off to you. I worked 40 hours a week, making $8.50 to roughly $10 within the last 4+ years (up to a grand 11.40 now). And at that time, by the time child support came out and I paid rent, utilities, food, gas to just get to work and home, minimum car insurance, I barely had enough to survive. If not for the minimal help of my mother (if a tire blew or an emergency arose) and student aid, I couldn't have survived and that was cutting back on everything but cable and a cell phone.... both of which I was getting great deals on. And that was living in a lower cost of living area than you.
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I work directly with some of the poorest families in the bay area. Just 30 minutes ago, I had a gentleman come in wearing $100+ shoes and a decent watch looking for free food for his kids.
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Some people work the system, some may have inherited a little and believe it or not, just because you are poor doesn't mean you have to wear shoes with duct tape.... in fact if you do, good luck getting a job. He may have gotten those shoes through a charity/Goodwill or Salvation Army sell some nice clothes, shoes and so on cheap... I know when I was making that money back then, I shopped there and even now I buy stuff there at times. Found a nice leather St John's Bay coat that was like brand new for $15, went to JCPenney's and saw the same coat for almost $300. What's a decent watch to you? It may have looked nice but so do many watches at Wal*Mart and thrift stores... did you get a close enough look at the name?
My point is, it is complete and utter bullshit to assume that he spent big bucks on what he had, there are many ways he could have gotten those articles. Doesn't mean his family is still not in need.
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Socialist. 
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No, not socialist. I think a free market with restraints/regulations and private ownership is the only economic system that allows true personal freedom. Once you allow government to own anything, freedom, IMHO, goes out the door because the government wants to maximize the workers earning potential, plus it allows government too much control over the people.
So, no..... I cannot say I am a Socialist. I just believe in the social responsibilities that come with wealth. I believe the only way to attain true wealth physically, spiritually and mentally is to take a fair share of your investment in a company and spread the rest out equally in regards to the workers.
Henry Ford once said,
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There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible.
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Somewhere along that line, the ultra rich forgot that reasoning.
He also said:
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The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for the betterment of life.
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Time and money spent in helping men to do more for themselves is far better than mere giving.
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You will find men who want to be carried on the shoulders of others, who think that the world owes them a living. They don't seem to see that we must all lift together and pull together.
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It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
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I'd like to find a site that has my favorite Ford quote but I can't, it goes something like this:
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If you pay a worker enough to live and buy the product, you will always have demand for the product
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