matthew330

"No, I would not have. Because torture has been proven to yield unreliable information. It doesn't help me if I shove bamboo up his fingernails to get him to tell me lies about the German defenses."

Because shoving bamboo up someone's fingernails will more than likely yield a false confession, does not mean (and lets make the distinction here rather than a feeble effort at comparisons) enhanced interrogations the US employed will always yeild false information. Though I appreciate you finally, though inadvertantly, recognizing what real torture is.

My larger point however is: How do you reconcile this philosophy with what was described in the recently released memo's. Shakran takes the position that is a known fact that torture yields unreliable information, and not so subtly suggests that bamboo under fingernails and waterboarding (not indiscriminate I might add) are one and the same. If this is a proven fact, than you must think that those responsible for obtaining this information were aware of this right? So why did they do it? You either have to think that you're smarter than them and know more than them about what interrogations practices are most effective, or that these interrogators were doing it for pure enjoyment. Which one is it? or please give me a third alternative that I'm not seeing. (edited to highlight what I'd really like answered)

Meanwhile, I don't see anyone insisting on the memo's describing what was obtained by these interrogations being released. Why not?

But to the point of this thread, Shakrans leap between bamboo and what we did, which "churchgoers" support over "nonchurchgoers" and not by a large margin, is essential in a favorite liberal past-time of demonizing those whose faith is not liberalism:

"yes, it's been decided the US enjoys torture - there is no more discussion, and looky - christians support it. They're so hypocritical".

I wonder why no one insists on the memo's Cheney suggested being released, are released? "Nothing upsets people more than the truth" comes to mind. I do like how Clinton when asked about this said "it'll come to no surprise to anyone that I don't considered Cheney a reliable source of information". As an aside, between Obama's ridiculing teaparties and the constant public references to the previous what they think the previous administration did wrong, and the "we inherited it" when their at a loss for words, and Obama's "man boobs" being passed off as buff while liberal women swoon, this administration and the liberal world has fuckin lost it.