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Originally Posted by Willravel
I didn't cite one person from a talk show. I've on several occasions cited reputable news sources, sources that regularly break serious stories.
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There have been some who have said information has been obtained using enhance interrogation techniques, or what you may consider torture, there has been a request by Chaney to release documents showing that valuable information was obtained, but you have not reconciled this discrepancy and your position.
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He's not only one of the foremost experts in the world on the subject, but he teaches people how to question. You don't get to be a world famous expert on a subject unless you know at least the first thing about that subject. To assume otherwise is to perform some incredible mental gymnastics.
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Your logic is flawed. To illustrate, at one point 'experts' were certain that the sun revolved around the earth.
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Please cite these circumstances.
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My statement was based on people who have said it has worked. I think Obama's administration should release all the information related to the question. I acknowledge that I may be wrong, but you seem to be certain that your position is correct and is an absolute certainty.
Again, the basic problem is there was no clear definition of torture given. I am not comfortable with the 'we know it when we see it' argument.
I also find it ironic that for example we celebrate snipers killing alleged pirates in a criminal matter not a declared war without asking question but we have grave concerns about known terrorist fighting as our enemy in a declared war being questioned using enhanced techniques. I don't get how people on the left reconcile these kinds of issues.
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This is a statement that's either said in jest or by failing students. Everyone else in the world knows that you don't get to teach at such a high level without having unquestionable expertise. Regardless, General Irvine was a doer and is now a teacher, so even if your statement is true he's still a reliable source of information.
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This can lead us into a different direction, but I will simply say it is not unusual for a teacher to teach conventional wisdom or fundamentally sound principles and then have someone with the ability to turn conventional wisdom upside down or use methods and get superior results using fundamentally unsound principles. I think the nature of getting information from people is more of an art rather than a science.
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Stop pretending like I'm not answering your questions. This thread is bursting at the seams with my honest and complete answers. Stop ignoring them.
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When does waterboarding become torture?
Is that threshold the same for every human?
What is meant by terms like "extreme" or "severe"?
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Why are you pretending that the most qualified people to answer these questions aren't qualified?
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I have not questioned their qualification, I have questioned how they know what they claim to know. If your experts have engaged in torturing people like you claimed above, why don't you want them put in jail for those crimes? There is a logical flaw, that I can not reconcile in my mind so I am asking for clarification. You have been tap dancing around that basic issue.
I am planning on doing some white water rafting this summer. I am going to rely on experts. I won't accept teaching from an expert about the best or only way to navigate conditions in a river, unless they have experienced it. The expert is an expert because they know what works from experience. Anybody can read a book and teach from the book, and I am not saying anything is wrong with that, but for me before I call one an expert they need real experience.