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Old 04-22-2009, 11:14 AM   #87 (permalink)
Willravel
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
I would volunteer for it, if it would save the life of a person I cared for. If I volunteer for it, how could you define it as torture?
There's no need to explore impossible hypothetical situations. Torture was used on people that were kidnapped or captured in order to get intelligence to fight the GWOT, but in that function it proved to be at best unreliable and in truth a huge problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
In states that require grounds for divorce, they often use pain and suffering as a basis. We all know that is generic bull shit. So now you throw in "severe" and call it torture? All I am saying is that your guidance would be of no value to me. So you tell me not to waterboard, then I come up with something else, so the cycle goes on and on. Why can't you clearly define torture?
The UN clearly defines torture. Your getting hung up on adjectives isn't an issue of clarity, it's an issue of intellectual dishonesty. You're proposing that because the language isn't unreasonably clear there's a big gray area. There's not. Waterboarding is mental pain and is therefore torture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
Here we go again. What is an "extended" period of time? I think when some people get baptized they get their heads dunk in water.
Extended periods of time was intended to communicate "up until the point where the individual has run out of oxygen and is a few seconds from passing out". You see what I mean by unreasonably clear descriptions? I know you're feigning ignorance on the issue, that'd be clear to a blind person (a person unable to see due to a physical factor).
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
I have been asking you for clarification. Again if I were your CIA guy in the field, I would have no understanding of your view other than waterboarding being torture.

Is isolation torture?
Is sleep deprivation torture?
Is being subjected to extreme temperatures torture?
Is depriving someone of toilet paper torture?
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Isolation can become torture when it reaches a point of causing hallucinations, insomnia, attempts at suicide, speaking to people that aren't there, and shaking. Sleep deprivation has similar markers (minus insomnia, of course) and should never exceed 36 hours. The human body has temperature points at which it cannot function properly, and interrogation methods should never be within 15 degrees F of those temperatures for any period of time (I'm not a biologist, but I believe the extremes without proper protection are around 45 F and 110 F, which would mean no colder than 60 F and no hotter than 95 F). Depriving someone of toilet paper for more than maybe 12 hours without providing an alternate method of cleaning can cause the skin to become irritated and even can cause the skin to break which could lead to infection, so I'd say you should leave the TP in the room.

Keep em coming. I can do this all day long.
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