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Originally Posted by Willravel
It's more than unpleasant, it causes suffering which is equivalent to what I would assume we might both consider torture, such as bone breaking. The problem is that you can't really understand how horrible waterboarding is until it's been done to you. That's my point.
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I would volunteer for it, if it would save the life of a person I cared for. If I volunteer for it, how could you define it as torture?
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When does something become torture? When it causes severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, it become torture.
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In states that require grounds for divorce, they often use pain and suffering as a basis. We all know that is generic bull shit. So now you throw in "severe" and call it torture? All I am saying is that your guidance would be of no value to me. So you tell me not to waterboard, then I come up with something else, so the cycle goes on and on. Why can't you clearly define torture?
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If you're unsure about the use of the word "severe", you'll have to get more specific. Waterboarding is torture. Why? Because it causes a similar or greater level of suffering to actually drowning.
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Drowning or having the sensation of drowning is unpleasant, but so are many other things. Earlier I stipulated that waterboarding was torture, then I went through what if's to try to get clarify some of the vague terms like "severe", "extreme" in the context of how you view the issue.
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I'm sure you'd agree that dunking someone's head under water for extended periods of time is torture. If not, you may have lost perspective on the issue.
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Here we go again. What is an "extended" period of time? I think when some people get baptized they get their heads dunk in water.
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It takes cowardice to torture, not courage. Alberto Gonzales refused to define torture in order to aid the efforts to extract intelligence with the use of torture by our intelligence and military personnel. Much like Gonzales, you're equivocating on the definition of torture. The only reason one has to equivocate on the definition of torture is to try and excuse something they think many others might think of as torture.
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I have been asking you for clarification. Again if I were your CIA guy in the field, I would have no understanding of your view other than waterboarding being torture.
Is isolation torture?
Is sleep deprivation torture?
Is being subjected to extreme temperatures torture?
Is depriving someone of toilet paper torture?
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.