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Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel
By that logic, you should be fine with everything done by someone that's not you. You should be fine with child prostitution, genocide, genital mutilation, ethnic cleansing, slavery, biological warfare and all of the other horrible things our species is capable of but you're not directly involved in. The problem with this attitude is that, widespread, it allows for these horrible things to happen. I'm sure you think the old Burke quote "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is an oversimplification, but I find it is a perfect critique of your inexcusable position. The "that's not my dog" position on suffering in the world is what passively allows said suffering. I know you don't want to hear it but you, Cynthetiq, are responsible for torturing. Passively, yes, but responsible none the less.
I wonder how many other people leave the torture museum thinking, "You know what? That wasn't so bad. Torture is just fine."
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I'm as much responsible for torturing as you are for the dog that crapped on my sidewalk and the owner didn't pick it up.
I think you need to read what I wrote a bit more and see what kind of thought I've put into it. You're reading just one single little sound bite and passing all the rest of the thought that has gone into it.
I have never once said that I find that Bush's policies are something that I agree with. I've not said once I approve someone torturing someone else.
I've said that I find torture to be a mode and method that people use for various reasons and I'm fine with that.
rb, I get what you're saying but it again, obfuscates the position that I'm starting from. I agree, that people met in some foreign country and said they'd agree to do and not do certain things. I find that flawed because well, people tend agree not to do but do them anyways. It may not be in the immediate moment, but fovrever or in perpetuity is a long time. People tend to be fallible and again, do what and when they want based on many functions of utilty.
Will, if you look at things always from the top down, you'll never understand something from the bottom up.
So again, from my point of view, I've not even gotten to the point of the ethics and the morals. I've looked at and cited where and how it's been used, right or wrong it has been used to some effect. It inadvertently has an affect on society as a whole, for fear, control, etc. It may be rooted in false logic or premise, but it still is a mode that people do operate from and stand within.
Thus, your citing of my ability to roll up my sleeves and pass jugement, isn't a simple possibility here on the breadth of torture. From the simplistic points, the Geneva Conventions agreed to make it very simple cut and dry discussion for this instance. But as a whole for the entirety of torture, which is the line I am speaking from, it is not as simple.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
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