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Originally Posted by aceventura3
I don't think I get your point. I don't doubt waterboarding is severely unpleasant. I could not do it to a human or animal and I would not want it done to me.
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It's more than unpleasant, it causes suffering which is equivalent to what I would assume we might both consider torture, such as bone breaking. The problem is that you can't really understand how horrible waterboarding is until it's been done to you. That's my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3
However, there are many things that fall into that category. My list would be different than yours. I simply try to understand two things about your view of waterboarding:
1) When does it become torture?
2) What makes it torture?
If I understand your answers to those questions, I think it would be easy to then clearly define what you would consider torture.
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When does something become torture? When it causes severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, it become torture. If you're unsure about the use of the word "severe", you'll have to get more specific. Waterboarding is torture. Why? Because it causes a similar or greater level of suffering to actually drowning. I'm sure you'd agree that dunking someone's head under water for extended periods of time is torture. If not, you may have lost perspective on the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3
Right now if I am your CIA guy in the field I am more confused than when we started. First, there are vague terms like "extreme" and "severe", then there is the concept that what works is positive reinforcement. It is easy to say waterboarding is torture based on the 'I know it when I see it' theory. However, the issue is should people in the Bush administration be brought to trial for having the courage to try to define a vague concept. I think that is dangerous for all people in public service needing to make tough choices.
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It takes cowardice to torture, not courage. Alberto Gonzales refused to define torture in order to aid the efforts to extract intelligence with the use of torture by our intelligence and military personnel. Much like Gonzales, you're equivocating on the definition of torture. The only reason one has to equivocate on the definition of torture is to try and excuse something they think many others might think of as torture.