aceventura3

This is just how I would define torture, I know it has no relevance to anyone but me.

Torture is the intentional infliction of physical or emotional harm with measurable and lasting damage to the individual for no other purpose than to inflict physical or emotional harm.

So, in my view - if the CIA had reason to believe a captive had needed information to help save lives, and they used waterboarding to get it; one, I would not consider it torture because they acted based on a reasonable belief they could obtain information; two, I would not consider it torture if the "damage" on the individual was not measurable. Perhaps ironically to some, I think a school yard bully could be more easily guilty of torture than military or CIA officials involved in war with enemy combatants.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

I don't think I get your point. I don't doubt waterboarding is severely unpleasant. I could not do it to a human or animal and I would not want it done to me. However, there are many things that fall into that category. My list would be different than yours. I simply try to understand two things about your view of waterboarding:

1) When does it become torture?
2) What makes it torture?

If I understand your answers to those questions, I think it would be easy to then clearly define what you would consider torture. Right now if I am your CIA guy in the field I am more confused than when we started. First, there are vague terms like "extreme" and "severe", then there is the concept that what works is positive reinforcement. It is easy to say waterboarding is torture based on the 'I know it when I see it' theory. However, the issue is should people in the Bush administration be brought to trial for having the courage to try to define a vague concept. I think that is dangerous for all people in public service needing to make tough choices.

---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

How about answering the question I presented to Will. Rather than being in disbelief, put yourself in the role of defining what torture is, what would be and what would not be acceptable to a CIA agent with a captive who you know has information regarding impending attacks intended to kill people you care about. You need the information and you need it now, what are you going to do? Positive reinforcement? You going to take him to get a latte, take a walk in the park, catch a movie, etc, to get the information?

Who has lied? I think you had people honestly wanting to do the right thing. They asked for guidance, the people who gave guidance gave their honest opinions. All of this was documented, no cover ups. What is not to trust? Even members of Congress were aware of what was going on.

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

I think the motive was to save lives.

I guess we do need Obama to release the information showing the successes and failures, all the results of the questioning.

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