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roachboy · 04-21-2009, 07:01 AM

taxation without representation is meaningless in this context if it is supposed to refer to the actually existing state of affairs in the actually existing united states.

if taxation without representation is taken to refer to the fact that the american right cannot face it's own political situation, then it makes some sense. what it means is that conservatives who were inclined to mobilize around the tea party astroturf phenomenon feel "disenfranchised"---the reason they feel this way is that the world shaped by their having power has unfolded such that their ideology, which shaped what they did while they had power, has been pulverized.
the right cannot face anything about the reality *they have made for themselves*...

i don't care if there are people who find this nonsense compelling. i don't care about the projections they confuse with arguments that legitimate it: there are compelling arguments, and there are stupid arguments and there are types of statements that are just so ridiculous that they're not arguments at all. the last is the category i see from pan6467 in this thread.
at least dunedan (and a few others) have had the courtesy to presented actual arguments that could be debated rationally.

and this has fuck all to do with "diversity" or "acceptance of difference"--this has to do with the fact that democratic process--PARTICULARLY direct democratic process--is found upon argument and upon the idea that arguments could be deliberated on and debated---a result of this debate would be the rejection of unsound arguments, rejection of absurd arguments---the integrity of argument (along with access to information) is the center of democratic operations.

if you corrupt the integrity of argument, you undermine the process itself. you gut it. there's nothing left.

if these "conservatives" were interested in democracy, really, they'd be interested in being coherent.
that doesn't seem a priority.

04-21-2009, 07:01 AM	#392 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	taxation without representation is meaningless in this context if it is supposed to refer to the actually existing state of affairs in the actually existing united states. if taxation without representation is taken to refer to the fact that the american right cannot face it's own political situation, then it makes some sense. what it means is that conservatives who were inclined to mobilize around the tea party astroturf phenomenon feel "disenfranchised"---the reason they feel this way is that the world shaped by their having power has unfolded such that their ideology, which shaped what they did while they had power, has been pulverized. the right cannot face anything about the reality they have made for themselves... i don't care if there are people who find this nonsense compelling. i don't care about the projections they confuse with arguments that legitimate it: there are compelling arguments, and there are stupid arguments and there are types of statements that are just so ridiculous that they're not arguments at all. the last is the category i see from pan6467 in this thread. at least dunedan (and a few others) have had the courtesy to presented actual arguments that could be debated rationally. and this has fuck all to do with "diversity" or "acceptance of difference"--this has to do with the fact that democratic process--PARTICULARLY direct democratic process--is found upon argument and upon the idea that arguments could be deliberated on and debated---a result of this debate would be the rejection of unsound arguments, rejection of absurd arguments---the integrity of argument (along with access to information) is the center of democratic operations. if you corrupt the integrity of argument, you undermine the process itself. you gut it. there's nothing left. if these "conservatives" were interested in democracy, really, they'd be interested in being coherent. that doesn't seem a priority. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 04-21-2009 at 07:11 AM..