Slims

Ok, to be clear, I am not claiming to be CIA or anything similar.

I miss spoke about the sleep deprivation. It was my understanding that such incidents didn't last more than 48 hours straight, though they may be part of a longer cycle. The memo indicates different, however.


With regards to the waterboarding, the Japanese would routinely 'waterboard' our servicemen until they were unconscious. They would then revive them and repeat the process. The procedure that was OK'd by the Justice Dept. only allows for breathing to be 'somewhat' impeded for 20-40 seconds at a time in order to induce panic without actually drowning the person. Big difference, IMHO.

Jose Padilla was evaluated by a court-appointed psychologist who concluded he was and remains mentally competent...he was trying to play the crazy card so he wouldn't go to PMITA prison. Didn't work.

Abu Zubaydah was shot prior to his capture and appeared to be either mentally unstable to begin with or very cunning. How exactly did interrogators cripple him mentally? Seems to me like most of the trauma he experienced was during his capture rather than his interrogations.

As far as my "telling silence:" I mentioned walling when I stated that they are not banging the detainees head against a wall, as you stated. I never bothered to mention waterboarding as that is nothing but a panic inducer and hasnt' been authorized for use in a way that would actually cause any pain or damage. Am I really supposed to get upset because the CIA told a prisoner to lean against a wall and 'dont' move'?

Yes, I am equating sensory deprivation to missing HBO. Both these asshats were involved in attacks against either the United States or it's citizens. They also knew other people who were still on the loose and active. I have very little regard for their feelings. I think we should have (and we did) safeguard their physical well being, but they do not have to like their time in our prisons, feel comfortable, or be happy.


I already conceded the Memo's were on what appeared (to my non-lawyer eyes) to be weak legal justification. However, our country routinely stretches the law to the limit and it is not a crime to do so. Standing up in court and stating "I obeyed the letter of the law if not the spirit" is still a valid defense. The prosecution does not get a "Well we really meant for the law to mean this" rebuttal because it is completely irrelevant.

If you think we should coddle detainees more than we already do then fine, pass a law requiring us to do so. But don't storm after people who were acting in good faith to carry out what were (at least at the time) legal interrogations.

And the Memo's are not 'extreme manipulations to justify torture' as you state. Rather, they are a clarification on exactly what can be done without breaking the law by torturing someone. Big difference, like it or not.

---------- Post added at 12:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

Edit:

I have not implied that I have super secret access to anything.

What I have implied is that due to the nature of the beast you are only going to hear details about the people who were dead ends. Those who rolled over and gave up everything are not going to be talked about because the information they provided is likely involved in current ongoing operations.

My point was that you are only seeing the negative because the CIA is unable to come forward and mount an adequate defense and is not about to provide further information on the exact details of the interrogations.

You also mentioned in a very adamant way that the techniques outlined were unreliable and couldn't be trusted. That is also something which I would trust the judgment of the intelligence professionals over yours. I don't know why they felt these particular techniques would be effective, but they probably had good reasons.


Granted, straight up pulling fingernails is counterproductive for the obvious reason that the detainee will say anything to make the pain stop. Likewise if you are overly nice they have no incentive to talk. You have to provide interrogators with options in the middle for complex individuals with valuable information.


Lastly, your uncle is irrelevant with respect to the discussion.

---------- Post added at 12:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------

Oh, and I didn't mention SERE specifically because I didn't want to be the guy who drags it into the discussion, but going back over the memos it is made quite clear that these techniques have been used on soldiers for years with no adverse effects.

__________________
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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence