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Originally Posted by Slims
Ok, I don't recall reading anything which authorized fake executions.
Second, "Mental Anguish" is torture? Really?
Sleep deprivation not to exceed 48 hours isn't torture or college students cramming for a test wouldn't do it on a regular basis.
They are not slamming heads into a wall.
Sensory Deprivation is torture? I guess we should make sure they have HBO.
The food deprivation consisted of a tasteless but nutritionally complete liquid diet, not starvation.
It is my understanding that our government is only required to look out for the most basic needs of a detainee...he doesn't have to like the food he is given, it doesn't have to be on a regular schedule, he can be uncomfortable so long as he is not harmed. Those memos lay out exactly how far the CIA was able to go before they stepped over that line.
I know what you are saying about the mental state of the detainee...If the Afghans roll someone up and then rape him over and over again for a week before giving him to you then yeah, he is probably not going to be very usefull. But if you make someone drink a protein shake instead of eat a stake dinner I doubt he is going to be mentally 'broken' and useless. Also, if you administer corrections and whatnot willy-nilly and don't reward good behavior/punish bad, etc. then you make someone who is simply traumatized rather than cooperative. Also, the memo's require a psychologist to be present during all such interrogations to monitor and ensure that the methods are productive rather than counterproductive....Sounds to me like they were already addressing the issue you are worried about.
Edit: last thing. I was not implying that you were not free to discuss the issue. But rather that you were drawing conclusions you knew nothing about. Saying an interrogation method is ineffective when you don't even know how the method is employed is silly. It's like saying fast cars always kill people because you read about a NASCAR wreck. What I was saying about the information is that you would only have heard about the failures...there is no reason to keep that a secret. The people who rolled over as a result of these tactics and are giving good information would not be mentioned, even at the expense of making the method look like a failure. So even if the program were wildly successful beyond anyones imagination, the few people who did not provide information would be all the public is likely to ever learn about.
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This is all bullshit, with all due respect.
Yes, "mental anguish" in all scare quotes you want, is torture. I guess you haven't read any of the released info on the mental condition of several of the detainees in GITMO, but hey, apparently literally driving someone insane is not torture.
And you either didn't read the memos or is intentionally trying to mislead. The memos authorize sleep deprivation up to 264 hours.
And sensory deprivation for months at a time is really just "going without HBO?"
The fact that you insist that "Im drawing conclusions I know nothing about" even as you distinctively mislead (intentionally or not) regarding the content of the memos that outline the methods of torture employed by the CIA is ironic to say the least. And your silence about stress positions, waterboarding, "walling" and other outlined techniques is telling.
And as far as the mental state of the tortured, it's not speculation on my part, it's based on the released information regarding Abu Zubaydah, Jose Padilla and others.
You keep talking as if you have some sort of insider knowledge that invalidates everything that has been publicly released, but unless you are a CIA agent with sufficient clearance to a- confirm the authenticity of whatever intelligence you've come across, and b- know the detailed state of those being tortured by the CIA, you really don't have any more insight than anyone else who's read the available reports.
And the memos currently released are exercises in extreme manipulation of the law to justify torture under current agreements. So much so that they cite as precedent decisions regarding building codes, but fail to mention the most basic precedent: that Japanese soldiers and officers were prosecuted and found guilty of torture for waterboarding during WWII.
And as far as personal experience with torture, I have an uncle who became an extreme schizophrenic and eventually was killed after he was extensively tortured by one of the puppet regimes in Latin America for being a student union leader, so don't assume whatever little experience you have is somehow unique and superior.