Slims

What?

Dude, there is no moral relativism involved. It's a legal issue and only a legal issue. Torture is, by definition extremely painful (or it wouldn't be torture). The methods listed in that memo just dont' fit that bill. If detainees were actually being tortured beyond the treatment authorized then that is another issue. As for the number of detainees who have 'died' in custody, remember that many of them were already sick or wounded before they were picked up and are often on their way out the door already.

Some of those detainees who were "Tortured" were the primary producers of Intel on Al-Qaeda for quite some time. Those tactics were employed BECAUSE they were effective and were constantly refined and re-verified.

I can understand the argument that it wasn't right and shouldn't have been done I disagree, but it is absolutely a legitimate argument. I can even understand an argument saying the tactics should have been interpreted as illegal. What I don't understand is an argument which circumvents the issue by either pointing at people who were actually tortured (illegally) and/or misrepresents the effectiveness of the methods employed with absolutely no first hand (or even second or third) information whatsoever and no data (because none has been released, intelligence being one of those 'secret' type things) to support your claim.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence