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Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Originally Posted by roachboy
pan---fact is that outsourcing of manufacturing jobs has been happening since the 1970s. where were you?
the "model"that the united states has been pursuing in response? service industry + debt + denial.
the french revolution was *not* caused by taxation. if anything it was caused by the absence of taxation. the proximate cause was that the french state floated bonds to pay for its role in the american tax revolt which were bought by the aristo-types. the crown defaulted on the bonds, and so there was effectively an aristocratic revolt which resulted in a call for an estates general. but there's alot more to it than this. suffice it to say that your version is a fantasy. proof is that centralizing taxes at the state level was a RESULT of the revolution, not it's cause. if you're curious about this, read tocqueville's l'ancien regime: it's a classic history of the french revolution and its main argument is about taxation, so he details the before situations (there were lots of them).
people may at some point wake up, pan, but i think it'll only be the militia set that imagines revolution possible over taxes.
and it continues to be surreal to me that you can manage to compress 30 years of neoliberal devolution on obama. so much for perspective.
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From Wiki..... French Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Another cause was the fact that Louis XV fought many wars, bringing France to the verge of bankruptcy, and Louis XVI supported the colonists during the American Revolution, exacerbating the precarious financial condition of the government. The national debt amounted to almost two billion livres. The social burdens caused by war included the huge war debt, made worse by the monarchy's military failures and ineptitude, and the lack of social services for war veterans. The inefficient and antiquated financial system was unable to manage the national debt, something which was both caused and exacerbated by the burden of a grossly inequitable system of taxation. Another cause was the continued conspicuous consumption of the noble class, especially the court of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette at Versailles, despite the financial burden on the populace. High unemployment and high bread prices caused more money to be spent on food and less in other areas of the economy. The Roman Catholic Church, the largest landowner in the country, levied a tax on crops known as the dime or tithe. While the dīme lessened the severity of the monarchy's tax increases, it worsened the plight of the poorest who faced a daily struggle with malnutrition. There was too little internal trade and too many customs barriers.[3]
There were also social and political factors, many of which involved resentments and aspirations given focus by the rise of Enlightenment ideals, which included resentment of royal absolutism, resentment by the ambitious professional and mercantile classes towards noble privileges and dominance in public life, many of whom were familiar with the lives of their peers in commercial cities in the Netherlands and Great Britain, resentment by peasants, wage-earners, and the bourgeoisie toward the traditional seigneurial privileges possessed by nobles, resentment of clerical advantage (anti-clericalism) and aspirations for freedom of religion, and resentment of aristocratic bishops by the poorer rural clergy, continued hatred for Catholic control and influence on institutions of all kinds, by the large Protestant minorities, aspirations for liberty and (especially as the Revolution progressed) republicanism, and anger toward the King for firing Jacques Necker and A.R.J. Turgot (among other financial advisors), who were popularly seen as representatives of the people.[4]
From Many factors led to the revolution; to some extent the old order succumbed to its own rigidity in the face of a changing world; to some extent, it fell to the ambitions of a rising bourgeoisie, allied with aggrieved peasants and wage-earners and with individuals of all classes who had come under the influence of the ideas of the Enlightenment.
As the revolution proceeded and as power devolved from the monarchy to legislative bodies, the conflicting interests of these initially allied groups would become the source of conflict and bloodshed.
Certainly, causes of the revolution must include all of the following:
* Resentment of royal absolutism.
* Resentment of the seigneurial system by peasants, wage-earners, and a rising bourgeoisie.
* The rise of enlightenment ideals.
* An unmanageable national debt, both caused by and exacerbating the burden of a grossly inequitable system of taxation.
* Food scarcity in the years immediately before the revolution
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There's a whole wiki page that describes the French revolution: Causes of the French Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I won't post the whole page.
From French Revolution Time Line
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Many factors led to the revolution; to some extent the old order succumbed to its own rigidity in the face of a changing world; to some extent, it fell to the ambitions of a rising bourgeoisie, allied with aggrieved peasants and wage-earners and with individuals of all classes who had come under the influence of the ideas of the Enlightenment.
As the revolution proceeded and as power devolved from the monarchy to legislative bodies, the conflicting interests of these initially allied groups would become the source of conflict and bloodshed.
Certainly, causes of the revolution must include all of the following:
* Resentment of royal absolutism.
* Resentment of the seigneurial system by peasants, wage-earners, and a rising bourgeoisie.
* The rise of enlightenment ideals.
* An unmanageable national debt, both caused by and exacerbating the burden of a grossly inequitable system of taxation.
* Food scarcity in the years immediately before the revolution
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Sound familiar?
IT IS NOT ALL OBAMA'S FAULT. I have never said that it was his fault. But the sand in the hourglass is almost out and Obama is not doing anything to slow it down or stop that flow.
The government is not being held responsible, the rich are getting away with whatever they want, we have an unsustainable debt causing a grossly inequitable tax system, we are paying for wars that were not necessary and drained our resources Korea, Nam, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, Iraq, and so on. We have raided our taxes to aid other countries at the cost of the people at home, and so on.
When inflation comes and it will because of the Obama plan that will put us further into debt.... food will become unaffordable.
The only outcome if we continue the road we have been on and Obama continues to lead us down is revolution.
We have no tax base that can handle the debt we are accruing. We manufacture NOTHING anymore. The tariffs we have are not paying for anything and allow imports to be cheaper than domestic product. The whole reason for tariffs is to protect your own industry... EVERY INDUSTRIAL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD KNOWS THIS AND TARIFFS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES EXCEPT US.
The only way out is to rebuild a manufacturing sector and the jobs it allows, thus rebuilding the tax base and making sure that tax base is not overburdened ever again.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
Last edited by pan6467; 03-30-2009 at 09:00 AM..
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